Meeting minutes
Joe Andrieu: Howdy, N.
Denken_Chen: Okay, Eight.
Joe Andrieu: Hey, Scott. How you doing?
Scott Jones: Hi. How are you?
Scott Jones: It's looking real high def on this camera. Not used to this.
Joe Andrieu: So, I want to go see what's going on in our current one. I think there are some structural issues with your PR, Scott. I haven't had a chance to really dive into the content, but I just scanned just comparing it with what it was before.
Joe Andrieu: …
Joe Andrieu: something I mean I don't know. are we waiting for other folks?
Meeting Time Discussion
Denken_Chen: And I think we probably should discuss the meeting time again.
Denken_Chen: We are now alternating between two different times. probably the time now is still too hard for other to join in.
Scott Jones: What? Oops.
Denken_Chen: I'm okay to just using another time that is 7 7 a.m.
Denken_Chen: at Pacific Day 10.
Denken_Chen: Yeah, given the attendance we've seen for the past few meetings, it's still important to have enough people to join in our discussions.
Joe Andrieu: So you're proposing that we just use the other time Yeah,…
Joe Andrieu: I would support it, Denin. I think you're the one who's most inconvenienced by it. what makes me sad tankining is it's people who aren't on the east coast of the US make a lot of sacrifices to be able to make it to these meetings. And it's frustrating to me that I know some of the people who won't come here are…
Joe Andrieu: because they aren't willing to do that and they're a little too comfortable in their East Coast time zone. but I appreciate you're sort of offering all the branch to say, "Hey, if that one's getting more attendees, maybe we can use that more effectively.
Denken_Chen: Yeah, no problem.
Denken_Chen: We still needs the contribution from the overall community. Yeah. It's not just me.
Joe Andrieu: So, if we look at our calendar, how does that end up playing out? Because I know we got the VCWG also coming up. so normally the 4th would be our next time at 7 a.m. That is going to be smack in the middle of the BCWG. In theory, we could still have it.
Joe Andrieu: Although I think people are planning on going to beer. but that would make our next weekly on the 18th.
Joe Andrieu: And so that's the one you're suggesting we would switch,…
Scott Jones: That's what it's comfortable.
Joe Andrieu: right? What about the June 4th?
Denken_Chen: And what and…
Denken_Chen: why do we cancel the June 4th event? it said it was cancelled.
Joe Andrieu: The face to face was canceled.
Denken_Chen: I see Okay, no problem.
Denken_Chen: So, today we probably should discuss the face to meeting time or agendas for it.
Scott Jones: It's
Joe Andrieu: Did you see the link I sent to you on that Yeah.
Denken_Chen: U not yet but I know that the chairs is arranging for the whole group moment Okay,…
Joe Andrieu: So, they have us queued up at 11:15. and I believe that's European Standard Time for Belgium.
Scott Jones: It's
Denken_Chen: sounds good. so we have 1 hour and 15 minutes for this.
Denken_Chen: Okay. Yes.
Joe Andrieu: That's right.
Joe Andrieu: We have an hour 15. And that time seems reasonable to you. I think they put it early to try and get you in there without being too disruptive.
Denken_Chen: Yeah. No problem. that fits perfectly. Joe Andrieu:
Joe Andrieu: Okay, they raised it on the call and said, "Hey, this is your chance to give feedback." They try to be accommodating, so I wanted to make sure you saw it. So, I'm glad you did.
Denken_Chen: Yeah, no problem. Thank you.
Joe Andrieu: All so we should send a notice. I feel bad we're having him keep changing the time of these meetings. but I will draft up an email for him.
Denken_Chen: We could do it more easily just and…
Scott Jones: Perfect.
Denken_Chen: and so the series one and a series two and it needs some change to the whole calendar because we are already on the weekly time for it. current still needs Ivan's help for this. Okay.
Denken_Chen: That let's contact him after a meeting.
Joe Andrieu: and June 4th is the one during the events, right? Yeah.
Denken_Chen: Yes, it is.
Joe Andrieu: Okay, I sent him a note off.
Joe Andrieu: Anything else before we talk about Scott PR?
Denken_Chen: And now we can go in the PR.
Scott's PR Review
Denken_Chen: And yeah, thanks Scott. You have made lots of contribution to this PR. I believe there are only some issues left.
Scott Jones: It's interesting.
Scott Jones: It's in the wrong section.
Joe Andrieu: So, the biggest one that's jumping out at me is that the section biometric vector confidence method is just in the wrong section.
Joe Andrieu: And that might be subtle. I'm actually going to try and pull up my own local clone to look at in the SDK. but if you look at the old version the data model section has just two sort of top level entries. One is confidence method and the other is assurance level. And that's the data model for each of those properties.
Joe Andrieu: and then that section closes and then we start up a section called confidence methods and that's where the biometric character confidence method should go. So, it may just be a closing section tag may be the only difference here. but let me see if the edit makes sense before we get in the syntax.
Joe Andrieu: Interesting. Scott, did that make sense? The shift.
Scott Jones: I'm such a noob here.
Scott Jones: I have to take these talking points and work it out with Claude. So, I took notes on what you said. I'm sure I can figure it out. Mhm. Got it.
Joe Andrieu: If you look at the two documents, I just want you to see that you ended up with a 4.1 that really wants to be probably a 5.3 or 5.1 whichever end of that. I don't really care about the ordering, but it shouldn't be in four. It should be over in five. And the way respspec works, that might be just an ending tag missing from the content.
Scott Jones: All right.
Joe Andrieu: And I'm going to see if we can track that down right now because that would be easier to deal with if we could
Scott Jones: All right. Oops.
Joe Andrieu: I have the file locally just to report in on progress as it's coming together.
Joe Andrieu: Denin, I'm not sure how good your GitHub foo is there a way I can take the edits on my hard drive and…
Scott Jones: What is it?
Joe Andrieu: push them as suggestions to his PR?
Joe Andrieu: I believe I could push to his PR, but that's not quite what I'm trying to do.
Denken_Chen: I think you can only suggest change on the PR…
Denken_Chen: because you are both using your own forked repository. Yeah. Yeah.
Joe Andrieu: Yeah, maybe I can do it within his…
Joe Andrieu: because I do think it's a very simple edit. So, I think it's worth trying to make it work. I see.
Scott Jones: H I am not aware.
Joe Andrieu: There are also a bunch of comments that you may not have seen, Scott, in the files. did those show up in the bigger conversation? yeah.
Scott Jones: There they are.
Joe Andrieu: So, they did show up. so we can talk through the issues that other folks have raised. I think that would be productive. if you go to your poll 38, there were some comments from Manu and Talad and others and we could just walk through those with you.
Joe Andrieu: And then the main bit is really just to move the section that you have for biometric confidence method down a bit so that it shows up in section five.
Scott Jones: Cool. Yeah,…
Joe Andrieu: And it looks like that would be hard for me to do on the GitHub interface, but it shouldn't be too hard for you, I think. S. No,…
Scott Jones: if I've got Claude coaching me on it, I'm just I double and triple check so I don't screw something up. So, I think I'm on the path. I'm just not doing it quickly.
Joe Andrieu: I appreciate that. I mean, I think Git can really snag you even if you're seasoned at using it. especially…
Joe Andrieu: if you try Just avoid the Think of base freebase and just don't do it.
Scott Jones: Wow.
Scott Jones: Cool. Yeah.
Joe Andrieu: I think every time I've done rebates, it has been a research project to make sure I'm not screwing it up probably because 10 years ago, I screwed it up a couple of times with client work and I just did not know it. scars is what I'll say.
Scott Jones: Yeah. Yeah.
Joe Andrieu: But let's look at the comments and we can just talk about them and see if we're all in agreement and it might help you understand what's going on there. I'll go and share my screen.
Joe Andrieu: I Where is my Zoom?
Denken_Chen: And that's Yeah.
Joe Andrieu: We are in a Zoom meeting, this one's Google. okay. That's why it's not showing up as a Zoom icon. There we go.
Scott Jones: H. This is Google Meet.
Formatting and Example Comments
Joe Andrieu: So, first up, Manny had a comment about properly formatting this section.
Scott Jones: And that was one thing I couldn't elegantly figure out yet,…
Scott Jones: but I'll keep trying. through the GitHub UI.
Joe Andrieu: What editor are you using?
Joe Andrieu: Okay. yeah, I think it's just a matter in this case, one of the challenges you could have that I will help you avoid from the get-go is make sure you use spaces instead of tabs to indent. The tabs tend to behave in a squirly manner where the spaces are going to be consistent for you. and…
Joe Andrieu: then you can just put spaces in there and format that out.
Scott Jones: Got it.
Joe Andrieu: The other alternative would be to get in the mode of working from the clone on your own machine and I would be happy to spend the rest of this time helping you figure that out because it is a more powerful modality.
Joe Andrieu: The GitHub UX sometimes just doesn't let you do some things.
Joe Andrieu: Okay, so that was Manu's comments. yeah, we should in the definition above. Why is he complaining there?
Scott Jones: Yep.
Joe Andrieu: Did you already respond to that?
Scott Jones: I see I missed one thing from Tall Ted,…
Scott Jones: but I responded to everything else. Yeah. my comment at the very bottom encapsulates…
Joe Andrieu: So for I'm just looking at manage.
Joe Andrieu: right. maybe you did address the other thing as well.
Scott Jones: what I did.
Joe Andrieu: I see. The tendency is to check each comment because often we have long threads about a particular comment block if you…
Scott Jones: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Joe Andrieu: if that makes sense.
Joe Andrieu: But okay then I will read down to see what else you've done there. I do see that the examples do still have the lack of formatting in them that first request for menu.
Scott Jones: Nope. on the ones Manu described besides the formatting that I haven't fixed yet. Cool.
Joe Andrieu: But you did add the biometrics section that says it is multibase encoded in the definition. So one of the things you can do there is the other it's actually important to do this I would respond here and say that you've adopted this in your current PR and then you could mark it as resolved and then it won't show up as an outstanding thing that we still need to work on. Correct.
Joe Andrieu: So for all the ones that you have fixed, that's a good response to let people know that you've adopted it. and that first one, you did, So you did get the biometrics definition there. I'm not sure about his second one,…
Joe Andrieu: he calls it I guess this data integrity proof of the biometric ZKP crypto suite. Okay, I think that's a fine answer to say yes,…
Scott Jones: I addressed that in the comment.
Scott Jones: We're working on it. there's things in motion. It doesn't exist yet, but it's not***. It's willing to be real. Yeah.
Joe Andrieu: we have a working version of this and we're still iterating is fine. and I'm looking at his next comments.
Joe Andrieu: I see.
Joe Andrieu: There's also a commitment comment from Tall Ted that you could accept.
Scott Jones: Yeah, I don't know…
Scott Jones: how I missed that one. I just noticed it now.
Joe Andrieu: That's all good. That's why we're talking through it.
Scott Jones: Yeah. Done.
Joe Andrieu: …
Joe Andrieu: I think you want to go through and mark the conversations as resolved by hitting the little resolve conversation button with everyone except the first one from Manu. And then when you get your edits in, you can ask if that looks good, right? Because I think both Tal Ted and Manu, Ted's really pretty good about catching those kind of formatting errors. Yeah. No,…
Scott Jones: Yep. Yeah,…
Scott Jones: he seemed very passionate about it. I really appreciated it.
Joe Andrieu: he's a wonder in this work.
Joe Andrieu: He's really good at copy suggestions.
Scott Jones: felt like he was in the flow state.
Scott Jones: There's one.
Joe Andrieu: Exactly right.
Scott Jones: I will make those updates.
Joe Andrieu: Dan, did so I haven't looked really at the content that Scott's put together.
Joe Andrieu: Have you had a chance to read through it?
Zero-Knowledge Proof Standardization
Denken_Chen: Yeah. about the one we just resolved when you mentioned that data integrity prove the biometric ZK 2026 it's not existing right now.
Denken_Chen: Current currently most of the data integrity proof type I mean the crypto suite are all standardized with some other crypto suite standard for example ECD SA EDSA and BBS.
Joe Andrieu: Yep.
Denken_Chen: So to be included in this value, I mean the biometric DK 2026,…
Scott Jones: It's Mhm. Yeah.
Denken_Chen: we probably need Scott to initiate another data integrity standards draft for it including figure out the best naming for it because I know that for any ZK proof there are different methodology or crypto sweet and schemes that needs to be figured out for other people to really understand how to use it or build their own implementations. Yeah. And that could be dep for in the future works.
Joe Andrieu: So that triggers something else for me. So you got the type of the VC and the crypto suite both of which are begging for additional specifications somewhere. I see right in the example you have verifiable credential and the biometric verifiable verification credential. that term for this to work needs to be defined in a new context and you are not using a new context because you just have the one for the VCs and so that points to a gap in getting the JSONLD tooling together and ditto for the crypto suite.
Joe Andrieu: I think Denin is probably correct that the data integrity work may be the best place for it. but I can't say that for certain. But I think that's the right proposal to ask Manu about. I think Manu would know where it might go best. there's a challenge we have in one of our specs, Scott. I think the crypto suite is stuck waiting for it e to standardize the crypto behind the crypto suite…
Scott Jones: Mhm.
Joe Andrieu: if that makes sense.
Joe Andrieu: And so I think you're going to have a similar challenge and…
Joe Andrieu: it feels like a weird blocker and I wonder if we can use the extensibility to get around it somehow. let me frame that as a new comment on this poll and flag Manu
Denken_Chen: Yeah. So that being said,…
Denken_Chen: I think that comment should be unresolved.
Scott Jones: to do that. Sorry.
Denken_Chen: We need to continue discussing how to do that.
Denken_Chen: So let me unresolve this and Joe was right. I know that BBS has gone through challenges to working with ITF groups and that has become a big blocker for several months. And we can learn from their experience to how to avoid the same problems from Manuel and Greg Bernstein.
Denken_Chen: I believe it's an important step for us to do because currently I don't see any zero proof skin successfully being standardized anywhere and there are just different implementations out there. if we got a chance to really implement and develop a zero proof for local biometric, it would be a big huge win for this area because biometric has always been important to recognize an entity and…
Denken_Chen: also a privacy invasion if not doing well. Yes.
Scott Jones: Mhm. Yes.
Denken_Chen: And I know in previous years there has been a separate data integrity meeting specifically for this kind of data integrity crypto suite.
Denken_Chen: So we can see whether we should develop another data integrity meeting for it and leave that conversation to that meeting.
Scott Jones: Okay. Sure.
Joe Andrieu: So I a plus one to all that.
Joe Andrieu: I was looking for where in your examples you are using that as the crypto suite. and they do use it in the proof part in example four, but in example five you don't. But maybe you're also not listing the proof there.
Joe Andrieu: So that's interesting. So your example five doesn't have a proof section. not that it needs it. Often people leave out parts when it's not the point of the parts. Yeah, I guess you did the same thing with three. But your example six uses ECTSA RDFC 2019 crypto suite.
Joe Andrieu: Do you know what the difference is?
Joe Andrieu: I mean obviously ECDSA is not a ZKP or selective disclosure.
Scott Jones: using it as a standard digital signature using the ECDSA algorithm because in scenario two the biometric provider realize issues assigned VC asserting we performed the match and… here's the result so it's Just a regular digital signature on a credential. Yeah. Scott Jones:
Joe Andrieu: That's example six.
Joe Andrieu: And what's the difference with the example? Is it three? Yeah. Or four. That's a client side biometric match example.
Scott Jones: So in example four the holder's device issues the credential there's no trusted third party involved the holder is essentially saying trust me I matched so the ZKP to make that claim cryptographically verifiable without revealing the biometric data so that's why it's using an illustrative ZKP crypto suite there. Whereas example six is user selector provider. A trusted biometric vendor realize is issuing the credential.
Scott Jones: The verifier already as an entity. realize signs it with a standard digital signature.
Joe Andrieu: …
Joe Andrieu: what's different with the ZKP signature? you could have the phone just sign it with ECDSA. That's why I'm like,…
Joe Andrieu: what's the mean, I'm guessing there's something CKP about it, but if the crypto suite doesn't exist, it will be hard to get this through standardization.
Scott Jones: …
Joe Andrieu: Potentially it's what's not clear to me is…
Scott Jones: you're saying switch it to the other one.
Joe Andrieu: if this is important to you guys if you do have a novel crypto suite that does selective disclosure in a nice way then personally I want to support how do we get that standards tracked right…
Joe Andrieu: how do we get that into here but that is the wrinkle in this particular long term is that this crypto suite would need to have some form of standardization for us to include it in our spec.
Scott Jones: Got it.
Scott Jones: So I got So maybe this is more forward looking of where we want to go once the ZKP work matures and then we could fold it in then. Is that fair?
Joe Andrieu: Think that's probably right. I think if it's not ready yet, then that would be the faster way for sure.
Denken_Chen: I just pasted a minute that happened last year.
Denken_Chen: In a CCG data integrity meeting they discuss about the different data integrity crypto suite including the BPS progress and Manuel was the responsible for that data integrity meeting.
Scott Jones: It's going to be
Denken_Chen: So I believe we need his input on this. And usually when we are developing this specification, we need to make sure everything is cited to make sure the implementers knows how to do this. So I believe that crypto suite if we would like to include it in the confidence specification we need to do some other works in the data integrity as well. And by the way the data integrity is a meeting in the credentials community group. it's for incubating some jobs. There's no serious timeline for any specifications.
Scott Jones: Awesome.
Denken_Chen: I'm also the chair of the credentials community group. So if we need some other time for it, I can help arrange you for it.
Joe Andrieu: You've got a bunch of different examples here. I guess the first one starts at three.
Scott Jones: Is it
Joe Andrieu: for so I'm just curious why some of them have the proof and some don't in terms of trying to understand if you're trying to highlight different capabilities. If you left the proof off of all of these then it would be something like an ECDSA proof on it.
Joe Andrieu: And that would be fine, frankly, in my opinion. I don't know, Denan, how you feel about it, but it would be nice to have a full VC that has all the fields and all of them filled out. but if we don't have the ZKP crypto suite ready, then we can probably just avoid talking about it. or we could add it and add a note that say that this is at risk because it depends on other standardization efforts and that's often how that might be a way to socialize amongst the community that this is the intention.
Scott Jones: H. Mhm.
Joe Andrieu: It may get pulled out before we can publish this one. but people know that that is what the intention is and basically that buys you a couple years.
Joe Andrieu: Not that any startup wants to wait a couple years.
Scott Jones: Yeah. Yeah.
Joe Andrieu: But sometimes these processes can take years.
Scott Jones: Yeah. Yep.
Joe Andrieu: And I wouldn't want to hold up including your biometric approach just because we don't have the nicer ZKP way to assign it.
Scott Jones: Makes sense.
Joe Andrieu: Okay.
Scott Jones: Okay. I think that's it.
Joe Andrieu: Were there any other comments in there? I think I got through them all. Scott, are you going to make it out to Belgium or Brussels? Yeah,…
Scott Jones: What's that?
Joe Andrieu: Brussels and Belgium. …
Scott Jones: I'm not even aware.
Joe Andrieu: no. that's unfortunate.
Scott Jones: I mean, I know what the country is. I'm not aware of the event you're talking about.
Upcoming Face-to-Face Meetings
Joe Andrieu: There's a whole world out there, the verifiable credentials working group is having a face-to-face meeting for three days in June.
Scott Jones: My god. I've only seen North Carolina and Mountain View. Yeah. Wow.
Joe Andrieu: 3rd, fourth, and fifth I think technically something.
Denken_Chen: Yeah, I've pasted an mail for it.
Denken_Chen: our culture there is a Google spreadsheet to sign up for it and you can see the information is in Brussels.
Denken_Chen: The JSON will offer the place and several Yeah.
Joe Andrieu: T for…
Joe Andrieu: what it's worth. although the dead working group didn't do this, which maybe it was just because they were two young guys. but it is really healthy practice for working groups once they are kicked off to schedule a face to face.
Scott Jones: Mhm. Yeah. Yeah.
Joe Andrieu: It just helps people bond and develop some rapport and the conversations kind of shift once you've had a chance to look the guy you're arguing with in the eye and…
Joe Andrieu: realize, we're both humans and we're both trying to make this work. so I'm bummed that you didn't know about it. you may not have been able to get it in your schedule, but now I realize it's also kind of last minute to try and hop over
Denken_Chen: Yeah, I encourage you to attend that either in person or…
Denken_Chen: I will be remote because in previous experience we have annual W3CT pack inerson conference and usually that will move things very fast for that inperson conference. Yeah. So it's important…
Scott Jones: God. No.
Denken_Chen: if you would like to move forward of this confidence faster. Yeah.
Denken_Chen: Please join that face to face or online. Yeah,…
Joe Andrieu: And are you aware of the TAC meeting Scott?
Joe Andrieu: Let me also find that for you. So TAC is the technical plenary and advisory council meeting. …
Denken_Chen: I got it.
Joe Andrieu: which it's basically the Okay,…
Denken_Chen: I got a link for you.
Joe Andrieu: cool. Yeah.
Denken_Chen: Yeah, this year has been scheduled on 26th October in Dougling Ireland.
Joe Andrieu: Thanks.
Denken_Chen: So you can set up the schedule. So usually we have annual events for it and…
Denken_Chen: sometimes we have facetoface arrange in the mid of the year.
Denken_Chen: It depends.
Joe Andrieu: Yeah, that's right.
Technical Plenary and Advisory Council
Joe Andrieu: So, this is the last week of October in Dublin. The W3C is pretty good about rotating the venue through Europe, America, and Asia. So, last year it was in Japan. this year it's going to be in Dublin.
Joe Andrieu: Next year it will be in America, but it is not going to be in an America that's cheap for any Americans.
Scott Jones: What? You're in Southern California.
Joe Andrieu: It's going to be in Panama. So, kudos for being in America but trying to avoid the fact that America is at war and has alienated a lot of people who might otherwise visit.
Joe Andrieu: But it also means I think the last cycle in America was in Anaheim, which was it's literally I drove there. I mean, I did stay there because it's like a two-hour drive, but that's very convenient. That doesn't happen that often, but yes. I'm sorry.
Scott Jones: You're in Southern California.
Joe Andrieu: I am. And I'm in Ventura.
Scott Jones: I don't think I caught that. I used to live in LA.
Joe Andrieu: Yeah, I was in Pasadena for about 15 years and then moved up to Santa Barbara. Was there for about the same and then fell in love with the woman who lives here in Ventura. So moved down here.
Scott Jones: You're doing a tour of beautiful places in California. That's awesome.
Joe Andrieu: It's, when I moved to Santa Barbara, so I was a military brat growing up. My dad was in the Air Force and…
Joe Andrieu: then my stepdad. And so I'd, been around a lot and nowhere felt like home.
Joe Andrieu: Santa Barbara immediately felt it just resonated.
Scott Jones: I get it.
Scott Jones: It's a beautiful voice.
Joe Andrieu: And so I figured I'd stay there, but then, I fell in love and she's down here and with the kids and the divorce settlement,…
Joe Andrieu: she can't move up there. So I'd rather be with my girl than have the slightly better location. Venture is still pretty nice.
Scott Jones: I get it.
Scott Jones: Yeah. yeah, I'm checking out a photo just to remember.
Scott Jones: Yep, that's pretty.
Joe Andrieu: And you said you're in North Carolina.
Scott Jones: Yeah, I moved here from West LA and Venice, so quite a change of pace.
Joe Andrieu: Yeah. Yeah. Venice is fun.
Scott Jones: It's a lot of things. Yeah. Yeah.
Joe Andrieu: It's got a lot of the city vibe also.
Scott Jones: It reminds me of Mad Max a lot. the beach culture.
Joe Andrieu: Yeah. The dreadlock guy and his rollerblades, he's a Yep.
Scott Jones: And that's a militarized RV from the 70s.
Joe Andrieu: Exactly right. So cool. I just wanted to make sure you knew about AC in case you might be able to get it into your travel schedule. It is worth it. I think the first couple times I went, I wasn't really sure why I was going. but it is interesting and you get We got a lot of work done in Japan. so it can be really effective. Certainly, it's your best way to get cross organization sort of perspective and talk to different people who aren't in your working group. and that can really help as your standards advance to horizontal review and some of the people who are looking at it, all that kind of stuff.
Scott Jones: Yeah. Awesome.
Joe Andrieu: So you are invited, sir.
Scott Jones: What's a pretty amazing travel schedule that y'all are doing, so I would love to get on board. Japan's one of my favorite places on earth. just to know that you there … Scott Jones:
Joe Andrieu: Yeah. Nice.
Scott Jones: my god. Yeah. I've been to Tokyo once and…
Joe Andrieu: Have you I don't know where the next one is going to be. I know the AC meeting was in China this year. but have you spent much time in Japan?
Scott Jones: it blew my mind. That was six years ago.
Joe Andrieu: Nice. Yeah, I lived in Hatka Kanagawa for a total of about seven months,…
Scott Jones: Yeah,…
Joe Andrieu: I guess. three different little short trips. but yeah, I loved it.
Joe Andrieu: I mean, it was clear to me as an American was never going to be an equal, but everyone loved me. they're not going to elect me to be a CEO, right? They're not going to put me in charge of anything, but they like Americans. I think it might have been very different if I was a different ethnicity. but it was great to visit
Scott Jones: the one memory I will never forget, they took us to so I was with Hulip Packard Enterprise at the time and I was evangelizing to a Tokyo sales team this new technology and they took us to this I don't remember what they're called. You probably know it right away. these neighborhood restaurants it's more like a pub where there's handwritten menus all over the walls. and the hosts we had from Hiler Packard Enterprise ordered an endless array of dishes that just kept coming out and all the sushi stuff I was into.
Joe Andrieu: Really?
Scott Jones: And then they brought out something where I could tell right away hey that my brain's ert.'s that? and they're like what would you call this? chicken sashimi. no. raw chicken.
Joe Andrieu: A chicken sashimi?
Scott Jones: Raw chicken.
Denken_Chen: Yeah, there he is.
Joe Andrieu: Wow, that is aggressive.
Scott Jones: I was like, you couldn't operate this business in my country…
Denken_Chen: Yeah, there he is.
Scott Jones: if you're serving that.
Joe Andrieu: That and for me in Japan it was natto, which is a pinnacle of Japanese. It's fermented soybeans. But it reminded me of actually a similar experience Den I had in your country. was some pig liver from a street market vendor. it's like pate…
Joe Andrieu: but different." I'm like, " All this was fun. I mean, I think we got into some substance for you, Scott. Hope you got some good feedback and we'll look forwards.
Scott Jones: Yeah. Yeah.
Scott Jones: I'll have another rev. When do those minutes come out? Are they the next day?
Joe Andrieu: That's a good question. You mean the minutes of the most recent meeting? Scott Jones:
Scott Jones: I Yeah, like the summary of this call.
Joe Andrieu: That's a good question. I think it's pretty quick because it's automated.
Scott Jones: I took good notes, but just to make sure I didn't miss something.
Joe Andrieu: Yeah, my personal comments here. I keep forgetting that we are being recorded. It's going to go down to my permanent record.
Scott Jones: Yeah, cool.
Joe Andrieu: Yeah, hopefully these will bounce out pretty quickly for you, Scott. Okay,…
Scott Jones: I appreciate it all and I will certainly over the next maybe tomorrow I'll have those updates in…
Denken_Chen: Thanks.
Scott Jones: but very soon.
Joe Andrieu: cool. We will look for it.
Scott Jones: Thank you very much both of you.
Joe Andrieu: All right.
Scott Jones: Have a great rest of your evening and day.
Joe Andrieu: Thanks. You too. Cheers. Meeting ended after 00:53:30 👋 This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created.