Meeting minutes
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Hello.
Ivan_Herman: How you doing?
Ivan_Herman: Mitri, can I ask a question?
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Please. Yeah.
Relationship Between Barcode and Render Method Specs
Ivan_Herman: Has there ever been discussions or is it a anthema that the barcode spec is in fact a specification of a render method? Where's she? What? Dmitri Zagidulin:
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Great question. I mean we've definitely mentioned that they're they go in different directions. barcode is how to fit the credential inside a barcode. Render method is how to fit barcode and other stuff inside the credential. from what I understand, the barcode spec has to do with…
Dmitri_Zagidulin: how do we fit the payload verifiable credential into the constrained envelope of a barcode.
Ivan_Herman: It generates a barcode.
Ivan_Herman: That's what it does. It renders the credential in the form of a barcode. here is Dave. He will probably shut me down. you are muted.
Ivan_Herman: You became muted somehow.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Dave will be able to answer that better,…
Dmitri_Zagidulin: but the short answer to your question is yes, it's been discussed that they're related. I don't think anybody's made an argument that the barcode spec is a subset of render method because I think they deal with slightly different concerns. What do you think, Dave, about the relationship between barcode and…
Dave Longley: Yeah.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: render method specs?
Dave Longley: So, I mean, while a barcode is technically a rendering, at least one version of what happens in that spec, it is a rendering of a verifiable credential. the spec also covers cases where it's not only a rendering of verifiable credential.
Ivan_Herman: That is perfect and…
Dave Longley: Yeah and…
Ivan_Herman: true. Yeah.
Dave Longley: I think it's got a different concerns. They are certainly related. and there is also something in the render method spec for you providing a direct rendering that you could use to render to NFC or…
Dave Longley: to a QR code. So there's a relationship, but I wouldn't say that they're Yeah.
Ivan_Herman: So let me modify the question.
Ivan_Herman: I was imprecise when I asked what I would call the plain barcode method which is just take the credential and turn it into a barcode. Forget about the other one which is indeed different. if I issue a credential I might want to give say that one of my preferences to present this bar this credential is in the form of a barcode.
Ivan_Herman: This is exactly what render method has. the issuer puts information about its preferences on how to render these things. in this view, the simple barcode method is a special render method.
Dave Longley: plus depending on how it's done plus some potential recursion if you're going to put the VC itself that has the render method into the barcode that's a little bit different from providing it as a render method some details about what you should take and put into a barcode or maybe repeating the entire payload and saying this is a barcode ren show it as a barcode. So there's a relationship there for sure.
Dave Longley: But I don't think that we could make the renderer method subsume the whole barcode spec.
Ivan_Herman: I did not meant to do that,…
Ivan_Herman: but I should be able the render methods in a spec say something that my preference is to Use that spec as a rendering.
Dave Longley: Yeah, I think that's related to so we had a short list of types of render methods that we were talking about in the last meeting and…
Dave Longley: one of them I don't remember what terminology we used but it was some kind of binary representation or do you happen to remember Demetri we had categories of render methods?
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Yes. Yes.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Yes. Yeah.
Dave Longley: One of them had as an example you would use it with NFC but I think that same type of render method you would use with a QR code. so yes to what you're saying, Ivon, we got to figure out exactly what the shape of that looks like. but yes to what you're saying.
Dave Longley: And if we walk through how that works, it might very well make perfect sense for that to slot into the same type of render method that you would use with NFC.
Ivan_Herman: So it turns out that it is useful that I am working on the 1 version of the overview document…
Ivan_Herman: where I have to fit all these things together and make some sense among them. And that's when I realized that this is an issue. a question and…
Dave Longley: Yeah, I definitely think it is something that has been on people's minds from time to time and hasn't fully crystallized with how it ought to be.
Ivan_Herman: we have to address it somewhere at some point.
Dave Longley: Yes. Yeah.
Low Attendance at Meeting
Ivan_Herman: So how come we are only the three of us?
Dave Longley: Is there a problem with the meeting invite?
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Great question.
Dave Longley: That was my first thought. Are we in the wrong room from other people?
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Okay, So meeting invites says ends with GCR. The call second is Yeah,…
Ivan_Herman: I think we are at the right place.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: I think we're at the right place.
Dave Longley: So, is everyone else at the wrong place?
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Unclear.
Ivan_Herman: Any event…
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Let's ping in some channels.
Ivan_Herman: which has driven people away to somewhere else.
Dave Longley: There is an ongoing conference I think a napsis conference and…
Dmitri_Zagidulin: No, I don't think so.
Dave Longley: that would definitely involve barcode people.
Dave Longley: But I don't know about render method people despite our conversation that we just had.
Ivan_Herman: No,…
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Do we have speaking of…
Dmitri_Zagidulin: which do we have a render methods channel on the W3C slack? No. Okay. Absolutely.
Ivan_Herman: We have never talked about it. it's possible to set it up, but we have never set up any specific channels on Slack or for VC in general. I believe it seems that people are uneasy to take up yet another way of communicating.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: which is fully understandable. I wish bridging worked better.
Ivan_Herman: But I'm happy to set up a new channel…
Ivan_Herman: if it's I think anyone of us can do it. But it seems that this meeting now is only the three of us.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: You're right though that there's a chicken and egg thing.
Dave Longley: It is also the third everyone has off…
Dave Longley: because July 4th in the US has happened. So a lot of people take this week off for a vacation.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Yeah, I was wondering.
Ivan_Herman: What?
Dmitri_Zagidulin: I was wondering about that…
Ivan_Herman: That people take the whole week in this case,…
Dmitri_Zagidulin: if it's early July 4th.
Dave Longley: And maybe in particular it's the 250th birthday of the United States. So they might be super pumped.
Ivan_Herman: but we got more people at the previous task force.
Dave Longley: That is true.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Yeah, I wonder I do not know.
Preparing Threat Model Document
Dmitri_Zagidulin: But I thought while we're waiting for folks to show Dave Lane says that summer on another call should be over soon. So maybe another call is running late. the VC barcode call specific.
Ivan_Herman: No, no,…
Ivan_Herman: no, no, no. We were both on.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: No, no, you just from there.
Ivan_Herman: Yeah, we both come from there.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Okay. yeah,…
Dmitri_Zagidulin: great question.
Ivan_Herman: As Greg said,…
Ivan_Herman: we all have a to-do list, so we can just call it a
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Right, right, right, right. yes, can do in case it's helpful to either one of Here is I dropped a link in Google chat here to a notes document that I was proposing the group to go over with that gathers together our focus constraints and the threat models. against which we're going to be evaluating the for method categories, right? So just lists out what are we trying to do which is detail view and list view. We need to be able to render PDFs.
Focus Constraints and Threat Models
Dmitri_Zagidulin: We have the spectrum of fully quote unquote baked at issuance time versus templated. And Phil. Hey.
Phillip Long: How are you?
Dmitri_Zagidulin: We're for whatever reason smaller group today. we're not sure whether people are celebrating July 4th earlier or there's another conference or the 4th.
Phillip Long: I suspect for the former Yeah.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Yeah. Yeah. but welcome anyways. Dave, you have your hand up?
Dave Longley: Yeah, I think this is useful and to get some of the use cases in there and I see a couple of threat model notes. I can't remember in this group, we have all these task force a bunch of them started doing some threat modeling exercises. I can't remember if we did that here in the render method group. but in those other task force we opened up a document and just wrote down a bunch of threats and…
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Mh And that's kind of what I was hoping to do here. Yeah. Yes.
Dave Longley: yeah so we had a pattern for that and it works better if we have more people because everybody can sort of jump in and…
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Yes. Yes.
Dave Longley: put those in there and…
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Yes. Right.
Dave Longley: I do think that's a good way to drive the discussion forward so that we can get an idea of a lot of those threat model things are things that it will answer questions like why are we doing this with a template instead of just putting it fully baked? what or…
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Right. Right.
Dave Longley: …
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Right. Right.
Dave Longley: what happens if we put a link to a fully baked thing. these are these great privacy concerns and so getting all of that down can help us get the shape of explain sort of where some of the things came from and…
Dave Longley: help us figure out where to
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Yeah, agreed.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: That's exactly the idea. that once we have more people, I'm hoping to go through that exercise here to see anything we've missed. but in case we want to adjourn early, I just wanted to put it out there in case Dave you Ivonne Phil you glanced and you're like, " yeah, we forgot this thing." Prefill it before we do the group exercise.
Dave Longley: Yes. Okay. So I have the link.
Dave Longley: And…
Using Existing Templates for Threat Modeling
Phillip Long: Didn't we have a template for this already that we've used in multiple places?
Dave Longley: yeah. Yeah,…
Phillip Long: It might be wise.
Dave Longley: that's what I was getting at. And I was going to see if I could find that.
Phillip Long: That's what I'm looking for right now.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Yeah. Mhm.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Mhm. Yep. We can absolutely use a Google Doc template.
Phillip Long: Here it I've got it, I think. is that right? This may be one that's partially filled out. let me just put the link in and I'll put it in chat here if I can find where my there we are. Is that accessible?
Phillip Long: I don't know whether that's mine or whether that's a copy from a public one.
Dave Longley: Yeah, that's Yeah. And now it might be…
Core Use Case Flow Document
Phillip Long: Was that an early one? I can't recall. Mhm.
Dave Longley: but we could just copy this one into a render method space. Did we not do this in the render method task force?
Dmitri_Zagidulin: No, we have not.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: We did another task forces though.
Dave Longley: So, I don't want to stomp on the template, but if somebody knows…
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Yeah, we can make a copy.
Dave Longley: where to put that copy,
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Yeah, let me here's the VCOM threat model draft. but that's one extensive. Yeah. Yeah.
Phillip Long: Yeah, that one's extensive.
Phillip Long: I was looking I thought there was one that was put out there and this may not be the right choice, but I'll keep looking. there's also the guide. I mean, it might be worth sending around as well that Joe Andreo did.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Right. Yeah.
Phillip Long: I've got the link for that if you need it.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Yeah. Yeah. Paste the link.
Phillip Long: Wait a minute.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Is that Yeah.
Phillip Long: Yeah, this template maybe this no. You've sent this around before, haven't you? your template really…
Dmitri_Zagidulin: I have not. No. No.
Phillip Long: because I just found it in my bookmarks.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: the one that I just said also that's from recognized entities threat modeling. wait a second. render method thread model.
Phillip Long: Here's the one that I just found.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Here's the render method one.
Dave Longley: Yeah, I think I just found our link.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Okay. Yep.
Dave Longley: Mhm. And this.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: I got it. Excellent. Perfect. So …
Dave Longley: So, we did start this.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: we did do this. That's right. Okay. Yep.
Dave Longley: it just got left as uncatategorized.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Mhm.
Phillip Long: Yeah, we started this.
Dave Longley: So if…
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Right. Yeah.
Dave Longley: if the three I think you had three or four threats on that dock you were drawing Demetri…
Dave Longley: if you just want to copy those over. Mhm.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: I'll do that. The Yes.
Phillip Long: The link I put out has 15 items uncatategorized,…
Phillip Long: right? Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Yeah, I think that's the one we're all looking at.
Phillip Long: This won't Okay.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: And here's the steps for the core use case flow. So I can transfer the core use case documents there.
Phillip Long: So, why don't you clean that up and send it all out to the list? yeah,…
Dmitri_Zagidulin: And we can do that for the Sounds good.
Phillip Long: exactly. We've got a lot accomplished on this call next week.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Okay, we'll do. All right. Hey, this is great. Yeah.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Great seeing all of you. we will reconvene next week or…
Ivan_Herman: Bye-bye.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: the week after that whichever way the schedule the calendar dictates.
Dave Longley: Thanks.
Dmitri_Zagidulin: Thanks all. Cheers.
Phillip Long: See him. Meeting ended after 00:19:08 👋 This editable transcript was computer generated and might contain errors. People can also change the text after it was created.