Archive index

A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 5th of April 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. pkra
    Apr 05 07:56
    @MichielBijl @stevefaulkner regarding that bug I filed on aria practices & math. Do you have any advice how/when/if to follow up on this?
  2. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 07:57
    I will as soon as it's on the agenda of the APG. I asked, but wasn't put on because the person I asked wasn't on the call yesterday.
  3. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 07:57
    I'll ask again for next week.
  4. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 07:57
    Sorry that it is taking so much time :(
  5. pkra
    Apr 05 08:21
    @MichielBijl thanks so much!
  6. jkva
    Apr 05 08:27
    Good moooooooorning Slackers!
  7. jkva
    Apr 05 08:27
    It's a great day to make things accessible.
  8. jkva
    Apr 05 08:27
    I won't be doing any of that, but still, it's a great day for it. Today however, is database code day.
  9. pkra
    Apr 05 08:43
    @jkva good morning.
  10. jkva
    Apr 05 08:43
    Morning @pkra =)
  11. pkra
    Apr 05 08:44
    make databases gra11y again.
  12. jkva
    Apr 05 08:44
    Let us join tables in harmony!
  13. pkra
    Apr 05 08:44
    Darn. I can't find a comic I saw the other day about SETI getting tripped up on drop table signals.
  14. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 08:48
    Drumpf bans grated cheese from the US in an effort to make America grate again!
  15. jkva
    Apr 05 08:50
    But they have cheese. in a can.
  16. jkva
    Apr 05 08:50
    Cheese. In a can.
  17. jkva
    Apr 05 08:50
    Actually, "Cheese product" :worried:
  18. pkra
    Apr 05 08:56
    make america spray again.
  19. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 09:04
    Make America spay again?
  20. stevefaulkner
    Apr 05 09:08
    Morning slackerers
  21. jkva
    Apr 05 09:11
    Hiya Steve, long time no see bruh
  22. StommePoes
    Apr 05 09:11
    It's the Steve
  23. StommePoes
    Apr 05 09:12
    Hey Steve if Mike is still on that crazy hiring binge, P just sacked one of the most amazing a11y people I've worked with. Nobody knows why, except maybe she was highest on the pay scale...
  24. StommePoes
    Apr 05 09:13
    So if Mike's not stopping at adding a dinosaur, there's some more fishes in the sea now
  25. StommePoes
    Apr 05 09:16
    In other news, the guy who wrote the SitePoint article about Baking Your Very Own Web Component where everyone kinda piled on because it wasn't even keyboardable, is nearing the completion of his Part 2, where he not only keyboards it but aria-ises the hell out of it. ...and it looks like it might even work somewhere for real! (combobox, not sure how good real support is...)
  26. jkva
    Apr 05 09:16
    Cool, effort++
  27. jkva
    Apr 05 09:17
    Heh, linkedin's "You might know these people" is suddenly populated with a11y folk.
  28. StommePoes
    Apr 05 09:17
    Haha.
  29. StommePoes
    Apr 05 09:19
    Yeah I happened to see another colleague in there, Kathy Wahlbin. Figured I'd better connect even though I only said hi to her for a hot minute at the booth.
  30. jkva
    Apr 05 09:19
    See I could've added Steve if only he'd been at CSUN :P
  31. jkva
    Apr 05 09:20
    @StommePoes: How are Suzanne's connections? SSB / Deque might also be interested, who knows
  32. StommePoes
    Apr 05 09:21
    She's connected to many of them
  33. jkva
    Apr 05 09:21
    Cool
  34. StommePoes
    Apr 05 09:21
    She and Kathy were the main ones working with TPG on some internal training for instance
  35. StommePoes
    Apr 05 09:22
    I noticed Kathy (who's on all these W3C groups and does stuff with IAAP and 500 other things) has no mention of Pearson on her LinkedIn. Either removed or never added in the first place. She's been running her own business alongside so that's on there.
  36. StommePoes
    Apr 05 09:22
    I think Suzanne's going to just chill and get some stuff done she's been wanting to get done for a while first.
  37. StommePoes
    Apr 05 09:23
    Apparently will show something cool at CSUN, I heard.
  38. jkva
    Apr 05 09:23
    Well now we have to go
  39. jkva
    Apr 05 09:23
    I'll accept my fate
  40. StommePoes
    Apr 05 09:23
    Ah cool the guy making the Part 2 Web Component article even checked in High Contrast
  41. StommePoes
    Apr 05 09:23
    w00ts
  42. jkva
    Apr 05 09:25
    "double-u, zero, zero, tee-ess". "w00ts" is not very clear in synthvox :-/
  43. StommePoes
    Apr 05 09:30
    yeah you need to edit your dictionary
  44. jkva
    Apr 05 09:30
    That's a thing? Cool ++
  45. StommePoes
    Apr 05 09:35
    http://dab1nmslvvntp.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/145860925902.png cool
  46. StommePoes
    Apr 05 09:35
    (image is screenshot of a Web Component in I think Apple's High Contrast mode)
  47. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 09:45
    That is apple font rendering anyways
  48. jkva
    Apr 05 09:46
    How so @MichielBijl ?
  49. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 09:46
    I can tell
  50. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 09:46
    Windows font rendering is different
  51. jkva
    Apr 05 09:46
    You have seen many apple font renderings in your day, then.
  52. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 09:46
    More kartelly
  53. jkva
    Apr 05 09:46
    Windows = truetype, I think?
  54. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 09:46
    Yeap
  55. jkva
    Apr 05 09:47
    More hinting needed for fonts to render well
  56. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 09:47
    https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/4Yf80yhD/
  57. amandarush
    Apr 05 09:47
    Morning all.
  58. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 09:47
    alt=same title text in both Windows and OS X font rendering
  59. jkva
    Apr 05 09:48
    I read about that in a book on typography recently, I cannot remember why it exactly was
  60. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 09:48
    Windows is a bit sharper
  61. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 09:48
    Because OS X uses sub-pixel anti aliassing font rendering
  62. jkva
    Apr 05 09:48
    Thanks =)
  63. amandarush
    Apr 05 09:48
    I seriously need to go update my Linkedin. I hate that interface with screen reader though.
  64. StommePoes
    Apr 05 09:48
    see if the mobile version sucks less
  65. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 09:49
    Mobile version is web 5.0 with web 0.1 technologies
  66. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 09:49
    JS' all the ways
  67. jkva
    Apr 05 09:49
    Hey Amanda =)
  68. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 09:49
    [oliviernourry] @stommepoes ah thanks! Yes, I work with Philippe Bron (technically he's my client, but all the same). Glad you saw his talk! We are striving to building an ecosystem to help people get a hold on accessibility, without being discouraged by the sheer number of hthings you need to know. It's an exciting job, even if not easy
  69. amandarush
    Apr 05 09:49
    I need to check and see how much user agent faking I'll need to do. I know some of them prevent you from visiting mobile if you're on a desktop/laptop.
  70. amandarush
    Apr 05 09:51
    @**[oliviernourry yay for trying to put a dent in the systematic education problem! Congrats in advance!
  71. jkva
    Apr 05 09:52
    @oliviernourry] I enjoyed Philippe's talk, he brought it without it getting dry, which is a skill if you ask me. I hope that perhaps he'll be able to speak on it at a Dutch event, which I've suggested, but I've not a lot of influence in that, other than having suggested him as a speaker.
  72. StommePoes
    Apr 05 10:07
    There's a photo on here... is the guy on the left Ian Pouncy? http://www.ncdt.nl/
  73. StommePoes
    Apr 05 10:07
    I see Bram Duvigneau, what looks like Wilco Fiers, and that might be Anita Top next to Bram's dog Abbott.
  74. stevefaulkner
    Apr 05 10:24
    @StommePoes tell her to contact Mike Directly or if not email me
  75. StommePoes
    Apr 05 10:29
    ok, did that
  76. StommePoes
    Apr 05 10:29
    thx
  77. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 10:46

    [karlgroves] > There's a photo on here... is the guy on the left Ian Pouncy? http://www.ncdt.nl/

    No

  78. julezrulez
    Apr 05 10:47
    The guy on the left is Ron Beenen. He works at Accessibility.nl
  79. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 10:54
    @StommePoes: this is a photo of that magnificent bastard Ian:
  80. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 10:55
    alt=Ian Pouncy looks like he has just seen a ghost https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/kXAeGoko/
  81. StommePoes
    Apr 05 11:51
    Rrrggg. I try, very hard, to search-engine my way to a correct, up to date spec. So I get this https://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-html5-20101019/elements.html#embedding-custom-non-visible-data-with-the-data-attributes
  82. StommePoes
    Apr 05 11:52
    it's got 2010 in the date, and no link to anything newer anywhere. This was after scrolling search results from MDN, W3Schools, and lots of personal blogs. Meanwhile, I need the most up to date source from the horse's mouth and that is not terribly googleable (or ddgable)
  83. StommePoes
    Apr 05 11:53
    Someone should just hide all that old stuff somewhere so SEs can show only the latest (and I do not mean the latest wiki or github.io page, but the latest spec page)
  84. julezrulez
    Apr 05 11:56
    That's what I teach: how to recognize recommended stuff versus outdated things or drafts. I do also sometimes forgot to check the status of the page I'm reading.
  85. julezrulez
    Apr 05 11:57
    And the next thing what happened is that you ask some stupid question :-)
  86. StommePoes
    Apr 05 12:01
    Yup
  87. StommePoes
    Apr 05 12:01
    Someone used an <s> tag and I was like, that shizzle's deprecated yo
  88. StommePoes
    Apr 05 12:01
    and they were like no, it's been zombified back to life
  89. StommePoes
    Apr 05 12:02
    I was like lolwut? They were like check the specs man (whole different URL)
  90. StommePoes
    Apr 05 12:02
    ug
  91. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 13:14
    alt=search results on DuckDuckGo for query “html 5 section element” list latest TR as 4th result https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Uhy2tjlQ/
  92. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 13:14
    What did you search for StommePoes?
  93. StommePoes
    Apr 05 13:16
    HTML5 W3C (name of element, in this case data- attribute)
  94. StommePoes
    Apr 05 13:16
    I have to add W3C or I get lots more garbage
  95. StommePoes
    Apr 05 13:17
    And it must be HTML5 because HTML gives lots of HTML4 stuff
  96. StommePoes
    Apr 05 13:17
    which might make sense in that of course it has been on the web longer, has more links to it, may seem more relevant to DDG/Bing
  97. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 13:18
    You can does: html abbr element site:w3.org/TR/html5
  98. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 13:18
    That searches within w3.org/TR/html5
  99. StommePoes
    Apr 05 13:18
    I'll save that URL thx
  100. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 13:20
    Latest version is always at: https://www.w3.org/TR/html/
  101. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 13:20
    So even if we hit HTML42; it'll be there.
  102. StommePoes
    Apr 05 13:21
    oh so when HTML6 is a thing, or 5.1, /html will stop pointing to HTML5 and will change to the new one
  103. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 13:22
    That should be the case, yes.
  104. powrsurg
    Apr 05 13:39
    As far as I knew we were never going to get an HTML 6, but rather 5.1, 5.2, 5.3 ....
  105. jpdevries
    Apr 05 13:50
    maybe it is a pipe dream but I assumed HTML 6 would standardize some of the “dynamic markup” concepts introduces by AngularJS and React
  106. StommePoes
    Apr 05 13:51
    HTML6 and an island full of kittens!!!
  107. powrsurg
    Apr 05 13:52
    http://mashable.com/2016/04/05/matt-king-facebook/#nF.1tfCj8Zqh so Facebook is going to guess at what's going on in pictures since it still won't let you set alt text?
  108. jkva
    Apr 05 13:52
    Yeah. Can't have users do that, they don't know what's in their pictures
  109. StommePoes
    Apr 05 13:53
    Facebook wants more than people tagging-- it wants to know everything about that photo whether you tell them or not
  110. StommePoes
    Apr 05 13:53
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTSJWxnWwAAvhVJ.png:large
  111. jkva
    Apr 05 13:53
    Muahaha
  112. jkva
    Apr 05 13:53
    And Oculus rift tracks your movement habits
  113. jkva
    Apr 05 13:53
    It's kinda brilliant
  114. StommePoes
    Apr 05 13:54
    alt=screenshot fake twitter convo: browzrh8r says "IE Sucks!!!" and @IE replies "IE adopts an island of kittens and donates them to children everywhere!!! #Kids+KittiesRULE"
  115. powrsurg
    Apr 05 13:55
    "Image may contain" - because heaven forbid we are allowed to tell people what it DOES contain
  116. jkva
    Apr 05 13:55
    Image may contain nuts
  117. jkva
    Apr 05 13:55
    Given facebook, pretty accurate
  118. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 13:57
    Warning: Image was manufactured in same room as cheese
  119. amandarush
    Apr 05 14:28
    Is there wine to go with the cheese?
  120. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 14:40
    I have some red if you want :P
  121. stevefaulkner
    Apr 05 14:49
    FYI https://twitter.com/stevefaulkner/status/717344530169786368 I appropriated my own work back as it dropped onto spec editing floor
  122. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 15:01
    [sethkane] Do anyone have a sample image or a tool of what bad color contrast looks like to a visually disabled person? I know there are tons of color blindness overlays, plugins and such but when testing the ratio requirements it would be awesome to show people why it is so important to have the correct color contrast ratio. Thanks
  123. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 15:04
    [oliviernourry] @sethkane most of times I use the "cataract" filter of any tool out there (Colour contrast Analyzer has one that's pretty easy to use IMO). With poorly contrasted text, it's even harder to read blurred text.
  124. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 15:04
    [oliviernourry] @sethkane also it's hard to contradict. Because cataract does not ge fixed by glasses, and older people tend to ignore they can zoom in
  125. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 15:09
    [karlgroves] +1
  126. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 15:16
    [oliviernourry] rsi-cataracte.png
  127. StommePoes
    Apr 05 16:00
    Ah, how do I search the gitter archives? Can that be done from here?
  128. StommePoes
    Apr 05 16:01
    I vaguely recall someone talking about a vanilla-JS version of OkayNav in here
  129. garcialo
    Apr 05 16:01
    https://github.com/w3c/a11ySlackers/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=okaynav
  130. garcialo
    Apr 05 16:02
    Same thing if you use the sidebar search. ;)
  131. StommePoes
    Apr 05 16:03
    the sidebar always puts me in weird roomds
  132. StommePoes
    Apr 05 16:03
    And it's hard sometimes to get out of those weird rooms
  133. StommePoes
    Apr 05 16:03
    I only want to search this stream
  134. StommePoes
    Apr 05 16:03
    stuff I am actually part of
  135. StommePoes
    Apr 05 16:04
    thanks for the link
  136. garcialo
    Apr 05 16:04
    ah, then you can search the archive directory I linked the results to above =)
  137. garcialo
    Apr 05 16:04
    sure thing
  138. StommePoes
    Apr 05 16:04
    yeah the search here is just amazingly broken for me. I can't use it in any useful way and my focus is all over :(
  139. garcialo
    Apr 05 16:05
    yeah, I hate both Gitter and Slack searches
  140. StommePoes
    Apr 05 16:08
    @steveFaulkner is it only because it's semantically a span that this has no accessible name until we aria-label it? "The addition of a label, using aria-label, to the custom element provides an Accessible Name for the element."
  141. StommePoes
    Apr 05 16:08
    ?
  142. StommePoes
    Apr 05 16:08
    Is the text inside a tag being the name special to only buttons and links ?
  143. StommePoes
    Apr 05 16:11
    The tequila example never made sense to me... I can't see any benefit to adding is=tequila-button. You already have a working button, and you can script whatever the hell you want on a button. I thought a <tequila-foobar> is something you make because what you want to make doesn't exist.
  144. StommePoes
    Apr 05 16:12
    I also had hoped you could is="select" if your thingie was vaguely select-like, with a listbox attached to it... but you can't shadow-DOM things that already have their own shadow-DOM, so sad pandas there.
  145. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 16:21
    [karlgroves] <button is=tequila-button> should (ostensibly) inherit all methods & properties of the button element’s prototype and then also take on any additional/ modified methods & properties of the <tequila-button>
  146. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 16:22
    [karlgroves] Think of ‘is’ as ‘extends’ in PHP, Java, ES6
  147. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 16:24
    [karlgroves] (except backwards, I guess)
  148. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 16:24
    [karlgroves] or not
  149. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 16:24
    [karlgroves] it kind of hints at why so many people hate ‘is’
  150. jnurthen
    Apr 05 16:26
    @garcialo use google for your search.
  151. jnurthen
    Apr 05 16:27
    @garcialo site:http://w3c.github.io/a11ySlackers/archives/ mySearchTerm
  152. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 16:27
    [garcialo] that would work too
  153. MichielBijl
    Apr 05 16:46
    Wouldn't <whisky-button is=button> make more sense?
  154. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 16:50
    [jitendra] Saw this <html i18n-values="dir:textdirection”>`
  155. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 16:50
    [jitendra] has anyone used this attribute before?
  156. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 16:50
    [jitendra] or seen someone using
  157. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 16:57
    [karlgroves] Where did you see that
  158. jnurthen
    Apr 05 16:57
    sounds like a chrome extension thing
  159. StommePoes
    Apr 05 16:57
    I guess I can't see why adding is=foobarbaz is able to give a button (for example) functionality that you can't already just do with scripting
  160. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 16:59
    [jitendra] @karlgroves: in chromium docs and also on this SO question too http://stackoverflow.com/questions/26198658/how-can-i-write-regex-to-create-a-javascript-array-of-each-image
  161. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 16:59
    [jitendra] Looks like Chromium specific thing though.
  162. powrsurg
    Apr 05 17:11
    I feel like I'm the only one that finds the entire concept of Custom Elements problematic. Maybe it's just from working on a CMS for years and having to build out functionality to strip out tags that Microsoft Office would include in HTML markup back in the day, but I loved having a set of known HTML elements that were valid and anything else should be stripped away.
  163. StommePoes
    Apr 05 17:47
    oh wow
  164. StommePoes
    Apr 05 17:47
    I just saw that code Jitendra posted in my localhost page I'm looking at
  165. StommePoes
    Apr 05 17:47
    however it might be a chromium plugin I have, rather than chromium itself
  166. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 20:23
    [lliskovoi] question: If HTML5 input types are used, should there be an additional error message when the field is filled out incorrectly since the messages in the pop-up aren’t read out by a screen reader (at least not VO)?
  167. powrsurg
    Apr 05 21:01
    That sounds like an issue with VO
  168. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 22:12
    [simong] I’m working on a documention conversion tool (pdf -> semantic html) and one of the things it does is convert math expressions into mathml. Some of these expressions are identified with formula index/label (e.g., a number between parentheses to the right of the formula). Is there a right way of combining the mathml expression and the "formula label” ?
  169. zakim-robot
    Apr 05 22:14
    [simong] Note that it’s not an alternate description for the formula, just an indicator of the formula that might later be referred to