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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 13th of June 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 10:22
    [michiel] o/
  2. Amanda Rush
    @amandarush
    Jun 13 10:59
    Morning slackers.
  3. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 11:10
    [dean] Morning all - appears Booking.com have updated their site, where the date picker is not navigable via keyboard…. http://www.booking.com/
  4. [dean] (oh it’s not morning anymore)
  5. [jv] Do they care about accessibility? I guess not
  6. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jun 13 11:23
    Grrr Booking
  7. Booking cares about money
  8. I've been to their tech presentations...
  9. Largest Perl shop in NL, but wouldn't work there
  10. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 11:29
    [jv] Who doesn’t care about money though.
  11. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jun 13 11:31
    Their balance is kinda skewed imho
  12. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 11:51
    [jv] Yes from this much big company I would expect that they should care about accessibility
  13. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 12:16
    [dean] I’d expect their PRIMARY purpose to work. The fact that you can’t enter a place, or date is just inexcusable.
  14. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 12:23
    [michiel] Booking.com does everything via A/B tests. So I hope they'll discover it's not working.
  15. [michiel] I think there are actually Booking people in here, no?
  16. [scottohara] I actually know one of booking’s UX designers… going to ping her now about this
  17. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 12:30
    [michiel] Zoe?
  18. [scottohara] Alexa
  19. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 12:36
    [dean] “Alexa fix the date selector”
    “Date selector fixed"
  20. [scottohara] that basically sums up the message i sent. need to wait for pt2 and see how long it takes to get fixed
  21. [scottohara] and she’s letting people know their site is broken :)
  22. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 12:42
    [dean] Great!
  23. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 12:54
    [scottohara] oh god. i’m talking her through what the actual problem is with the date picker, which made me look through the source code…and EVERYTHING is just a clickable div/span
  24. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 13 13:21
    booking.com needs better focus selectors. I have no idea where I have tabbed into
  25. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 13:30
    [scottohara] agreed
  26. [scottohara] apparently the JS developer who did the drop down knows it’s not accessible. but they’re looking into doing a site wide audit for accessibility
  27. [michiel] I know of a company that can help with that.
  28. [scottohara] so on one hand, good that they know their site has problems and want to fix them. bad that they’re like “well this doesn’t work….ship it"
  29. [karlgroves] Hey kids I'm speaking at Elements conference today and my session will be streamed at 10:45 am US Eastern http://wpsu.org/elements2016/
  30. [michiel] What is that in normal time?
  31. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 13:36
    [dean] I think it’s 4:45pm normal time @michiel
  32. [karlgroves] ADD 4 TO IT, DUTCHMAN
  33. [dean] @michiel: GMT is that timezone that is one behind normal time.
  34. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 13:41
    [michiel] Karl, so it's in an hour?
  35. [michiel] That would make it 4:45 normal time indeed.
  36. [karlgroves] Yes
  37. [michiel] I'll be sure to be busy in an hour then…
  38. [michiel] Is it your CSUN talk? That was pretty good :)
  39. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 13 13:48
    adding 4 to 10:45 am would make it 2:45 pm
  40. not 4:45
  41. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 13:49

    [karlgroves] http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html

    Yes, the one from CSUN

  42. [dean] Question
  43. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 14:08
    [aharvard] Using a tool like Fovea, I color pick the lightest part on the image and calc the luminance of the #fff text
  44. [aharvard] If the text is dark, I would color pick the darkest part
  45. [aharvard] if the design allows, a subtle drop shadow could punch up the contrast
  46. [aharvard] https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fovea/id560464227?mt=12
  47. [dean] Thanks so much!
  48. [aharvard] +1:skin-tone-2:
  49. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 14:13
    [aharvard] @dean: I’d love to hear from others if there is a automated technique for this…
  50. [aharvard] i could imagine a script that could pick out the lightest pixels and do that calculation
  51. [dean] Yeah, I use Color Picker, and then put the values into a Color Contrast Checker… so basically I’m doing the same thing that you suggest, I just wanted some reassurance that I was doing it right! Would be interested to hear if there is an automated technique too.
  52. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 14:20
    [michiel] dean: https://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/contrastanalyser/
  53. [michiel] Colour picker build in!
  54. [michiel] built*
  55. [michiel] I know Karl wants to bring it to Tenon too :)
  56. [dean] yeah, does that check the contrast for a region though?
  57. [michiel] Sorry, no, I know there is a tool for that.
  58. [michiel] Just can't remember the name :(
  59. [michiel] It detects text and shows a line around it where contrast fails..
  60. [michiel] stevefaulkner probably knows.
  61. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 13 14:28
    https://24ways.org/2010/calculating-color-contrast/
  62. Woo, Microsoft is buying LinkedIn
  63. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 14:32
    [dean] Clippy
  64. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 13 14:33
    hah
  65. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Jun 13 14:35
    MS has been doing better the last years, I'm curious to what'll happen
  66. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 14:36
    [deborah_kaplan] I'm assuming LinkedIn a11y will improve. MS has been working real hard.
  67. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 13 14:36
    Hopefully I stop seeing "null" or "undefined" when I load stuff on LI
  68. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 14:39
    [deborah_kaplan] I desperately want MS to make a reasonable free docs and sheets alternative there's real competetion there.
  69. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 14:45
    [nathanhammond] As a LI employee I personally like to think that LI has been doing good things with regards to a11y. :p See: https://github.com/ember-a11y/
  70. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 15:19
    [deborah_kaplan] @nathanhammond LI's not awful! And I don't mean that as damning with faint praise. But there's still many features of the UI I can't use or can only use with great difficulty.

  71. [juryjowns] I have a markup question. I’m creating a quiz for people to take. Only one question at a time shows, and they’re marked up like this:

    `\

    <form>
    <fieldset>
    </fieldset>
    </form>

  72. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 15:25
    [nathanhammond] @deborah_kaplan: you'll note that linkedin.com is not presently written in Ember. :p
  73. [nathanhammond] We're on it.
  74. [deborah_kaplan] Oh, @nathanhammond, I'm not complaining about the work y'all do! Just that the product we users currently have is difficult I *totally* understand the difference between inhouse work and what gets put in production, it's just that prod is what the customers have to use.
  75. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 13 15:29
    Development would be so much better if it wasn't for all of the stinkin' customers. :p
  76. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 15:30
    [nathanhammond] I'm at the limit of what I can say. =D But LinkedIn has ~6 people focusing on making Ember accessible by default.
  77. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 17:39
    [jiatyan] medium
  78. [jiatyan] https://medium.com/the-momocentral-times/the-day-we-hired-a-blind-coder-9c9d704bb08b#.9vdsdra1n
  79. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 18:08
    [garcialo] @michiel: Are you thinking of Color Contrast Analyser?
  80. [garcialo] @michiel: Correction, Color Contrast Analyzer - https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/color-contrast-analyzer/dagdlcijhfbmgkjokkjicnnfimlebcll?utm_source=chrome-app-launcher-info-dialog
  81. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 18:13
    [garcialo] I'm not exactly sure how, but I'm sure this is @stevefaulkner's fault
  82. [michiel] @garcialo: yes.
  83. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 18:18
    [michiel] Merci
  84. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 13 18:19
    is the ((( ))) thing still a thing?
  85. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 18:19
    [michiel] (((yes)))
  86. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 13 18:19
    stupid internets
  87. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 18:32
    [michiel] It's like “Smoking Forbidden” signs; we all know we shouldn't, stop with the signs…
  88. coffeecob
    @coffeecob
    Jun 13 18:41
    hey gang
  89. Jonathan Neal
    @jonathantneal
    Jun 13 19:24
    In an ideal world, if I put [aria-hidden="false"] on an element that also had [hidden], one would expect it to be announced?
  90. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 19:29
    [marcysutton] That depends on how [hidden] is implemented, but I would expect it to override aria-hidden=“false"
  91. Jonathan Neal
    @jonathantneal
    Jun 13 19:43
    I showed it to an a11y expert and they seemed to think it would be announced. I showed it to webdev experts and they are sure it shouldn’t be announced. I’ve almost lost hope for a semantic way of marking up such a space.
  92. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 19:55

    [scottohara] i wouldn’t think aria-hidden would override hidden.

    as browsers that fully support [hidden] both make it invisible to AT & visually.

    by putting an aria-hidden=“false” on that, even if it did override the [hidden], without additional CSS, it’d only override it being announced to the AT and not visually, and that’d be less than ideal

  93. [alexlande] I would expect [hidden] to take precedence over aria-hidden as well. I’d expect the same for [disabled] vs aria-disabled, etc
  94. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 13 20:29
    When it comes down to it: try it
  95. I'd go with what others are saying and that [hidden] would take precedence over [aria-hidden]
  96. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 20:39
    [cordelia] What is the use case for making a [hidden] element [aria-hidden=“false”]?
  97. [scottohara] i’d like to know that as well. because couldn’t you just toggle the hidden attribute?
  98. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 20:53
    [michiel] +1 to Scott
  99. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 13 20:56
    Did they announce anything useful a11y-wise from today's WWDC?
  100. or heck, I haven't see anything web-related for WWDC besides the apple pay js thing
  101. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 20:57
    [deborah_kaplan] well siri is awesome a11y
  102. [deborah_kaplan] open siri API
  103. [deborah_kaplan] @deborah_kaplan dances
  104. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Jun 13 21:02
    I actually thought that had already been a thing.
  105. Did they announce anything about their web crawler yet?
  106. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 21:05
    [cordelia] I haven’t watched yet but I heard they talked about Apple Watch fitness app considerations for wheelchair users
  107. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 21:36
    [cordelia] http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/apple-watch-track-fitness-wheelchair-users-39822112
  108. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 21:42

    [robdodson] quick question, do folks have a specific way of referencing this doc: https://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-accessibility-mapping/

    Would you call it something like "WCAG for mobile" or the "WCAG to mobile mapping" or is it still just considered to be part of WCAG

  109. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 21:49
    [garcialo] I don't normally reference that, but were I to, then I'd probably use the whole "How WCAG...Apply to Mobile" title
  110. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 21:57
    [robdodson] @garcialo: yeah i'm giving a talk with a specific mobile angle so wanted to make sure folks knew this doc existed too
  111. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Jun 13 23:16
    [joly] My colleague Glen McKnight's pix from M-enabling Summit https://www.flickr.com/photos/glennmcknight/sets/72157667067927963