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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 5th of October 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 00:03
    [chris__pearce] @karlgroves thanks for that and good point about why hide the text as yeah it’s applicable to everyone.
  2. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 00:31

    [karlgroves] @chris__pearce to expand a little bit:

    When you add the notice to the <legend> your notice should be read out with the labels (though, YMMV by specific AT)

  3. [karlgroves] Therefore, adding required to each one will be unnecessary - and a real nightmare if you have any business logic tied in to each
  4. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 00:37
    [chris__pearce] @karlgroves thanks for the additional info. It’s good to know that the legend text is announced with each label (depending on AT).
  5. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 09:08
    [jv] Does section tag makes any difference for screen readers?
  6. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Oct 05 09:47
    @jv: not that I know of
  7. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 09:48
    [jv] what is tha benefit of it then
  8. [michiel] jv: people started abusing it in the early days of HTML 5; so AT don’t announce them anymore.
  9. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Oct 05 09:50
    @jv: they have a native role of "region" https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#region
  10. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 09:50
    [michiel] jv: they’re still useful for semantics sake.
  11. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Oct 05 09:51
    YEah
  12. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 09:51
    [jv] to search engines?
  13. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Oct 05 09:51
    And to any technology that wants to hence parse a document and infer meaning from semantics
  14. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 09:52
    [michiel] Plus: you can do something like <section aria-label="Chickens"> and have them announced by AT / show up in something like VoiceOver’s Web Rotor.
  15. [jv] but that can be done with div too, no?
  16. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Oct 05 09:53
    jv: yeah, but divs have no native semantics - that's the difference
  17. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 09:54
    [jv] but section has no use as of now, right
  18. Job van Achterberg
    @jkva
    Oct 05 09:57
    No, but that does not mean you can't use it to add semantics to your HTML
  19. also keep in mind that it's a good pattern to have a heading in any section
  20. Because they're information sections on your page, they tend to also have a heading
  21. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 10:04
    [michiel] jv: <section> still has more value than <div>
  22. [jv] ok
  23. [jv] would any recommend the latest resource to learn to use section in the way W3C intend?
  24. [michiel] IIRC stevefaulkner rewrote the section on section (ha) a while back: http://w3c.github.io/html/sections.html#the-section-element
  25. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 10:10
    [jv] thanks
  26. [michiel] thumbsup emoji
  27. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 13:36
    [car] @jv some validation tools flag content that is not inside a landmark region. So one advantage of using <section> instead of <div> is that (in browsers that expose section's default role of region) child elements will be automatically included in a landmark region and not flagged as violations. Use them wisely, though - only for something that is semantically a section. :)
  28. [car] (Oh, and they have to have aria-label or aria-labelledby to be considered a landmark region).
  29. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 13:43
    [car] (i.e. Just having an <hx> heading child doesn't seem to qualify a section as a landmark according to browsers/AT - they still need the aria-label[ledby]. But I think it's supposed to work someday).
  30. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 14:04
    [conley] hey @chris__pearce I would say that aria-required=“true” would be confusing to the user in this instance.
  31. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 14:48
    [beth] @michiel How do you feel about nested tabs? Like 3 layers of them? I know it’s theoretically possible, but how usable do you think it would be?
  32. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 14:56
    [marcysutton] Oh god
  33. [marcysutton] That sounds like a usability nightmare
  34. [marcysutton] Compound complex widgets are usually a bad way to go for users' sake. Like tabs in a modal window

  35. [karlgroves] > That sounds like a usability nightmare

    QFT

  36. [karlgroves] > Compound complex widgets are usually a bad way to go for users' sake. Like tabs in a modal window

    I once saw a modal with tabs that had a multi-column-sortable table in it. (ohcrap emoji)

  37. [marcysutton] Try fitting that design on a mobile device
  38. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 15:02
    [car] @beth Would menus with submenus help?
  39. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 15:08
    [car] Menubar for first layer, menus for 2nd layer, submenus for 3rd? Turns it into more of a nav, I guess. You don't get to the "tab" you want until you select a menuitem.
  40. [car] Actually, it's feeling kind of icky to me - so never mind... :) Was just trying to think of a different way to get those tab layers in without the visual goo of seeing them all at once.
  41. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 15:14
    [car] Pasted image at 2016-10-05, 11:14 AM
  42. [car] Actually, I just figured out where Issues go: https://github.com/GoogleChrome/accessibility-developer-tools/issues
    So I'll put the feature request in there. :)
  43. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 15:33
    [beth] @marcysutton This is actually being designed for a mobile device :\
  44. [beth] phones will not have the multi-tab nightmare, but tablets will.
  45. [beth] @karlgroves Yes, I agree. They’re really pushing for it and want to “see how it tests” once it’s all coded and ready to launch. :'(
  46. [beth] Perfect time to test, no? (totally kidding)
  47. [conley] I would recommend they place it on a table and set it on fire. That’s how it will test ;)

  48. [karlgroves] > want to “see how it tests”

    Perfect. Let em watch. ;)

  49. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 15:40
    [beth] @conley LOL my sentiments exactly.
  50. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 17:22
    [marcysutton] Is it a responsive site? Because that sounds really difficult to maintain.
  51. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 18:52
    [beth] Yes, it is responsive. I have told the ones in charge that they can change it now when it’s in the wireframe stage, or they can wait until it’s fully coded and intergrated and change it then when it’s more complicated and expensive to change. They’re willing to take that chance.
  52. [beth] In other news, I’m auditing another site and found "tabindex=“1001”!
  53. [kkoskelin] I'm looking for some input on what to expect from JAWS on this page: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-describedby_for_link_purpose#Example_1:_Link_context_with_a_LI_element
  54. [kkoskelin] I expected at some point that the describedby would influence what I heard -- but maybe my JAWS settings need changing.
  55. [kkoskelin] (I lifted the code and dropped it into a jsfiddle)
  56. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 19:21
    [kkoskelin] question: why doesn't the first bullet link at https://jsfiddle.net/kkoskelin/zbrn3t20/embedded/result/ say "Royal Palm Hotel Map" or something along those lines?
  57. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 20:03
    [marcysutton] the describedby will come after, but it depends on the SR settings
  58. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 05 20:44
    [kkoskelin] thanks, @marcysutton