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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 20th of October 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. Sean Elliott
    @seanus1138
    Oct 20 00:13
    Thanks michiel for the confirmation. It was one of those things i knew but a little panic went through me and i thought maybe it was a "best practice" that i had missed.
  2. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 20 00:15
    [michiel] You could sent Simply Accessible an e-mail asking them why they did it :)
  3. Thierry Koblentz
    @thierryk
    Oct 20 03:21
    @seanus1138 it seems simpleaccessible is doing this because they use the heading as a target (they have a jump link for it)
  4. Sean Elliott
    @seanus1138
    Oct 20 04:38
    @thierryk good catch there, should have looked at the jump menu at the top, still you dont need a tabindex for the jump menu to work correctly. But that would surely be the reason.
  5. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 20 04:43
    [caesar] If anything, it should've had tabindex="-1"
  6. [caesar] But it's definitely their way of creating a link target for a skip link.
  7. Srinivas Yedhuri
    @sri429
    Oct 20 11:42
    <h1> <a name="#acc-heading-0"> .... won't do?
  8. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Oct 20 13:07
    @marcysutton if your comment had been directed to me, it was NVDA and Firefox on Windows 10.
  9. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Oct 20 14:34
    https://www.palantir.net/blog/addressing-accessibility-web?utm_source=The+Weekly+Drop&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=The_Weekly_Drop_Issue_262_10_20_2016
  10. Thierry Koblentz
    @thierryk
    Oct 20 15:05
    @sri429 if I recall correctly, there are browsers that would jump/scroll to the named anchor but that would fail to tab through from that point. It's a way to make sure tabbing navigation works from the heading on.
    @caesar yes, it should be tabindex="-1" but I think many authors don't know that "-1" works and actually works better than "0" as it does not place the element in the tabbing sequence.
  11. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 20 15:55
    [elisaf] Screen Shot 2016-10-20 at 11.57.05 AM
  12. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 20 17:51
    [jiatyan] I need some backup for a continuous 'video background' argument.
  13. [jiatyan] The video is large enough to take over a 1024 width screen, but can still be seen with other text if the screen is larger.
  14. [jiatyan] The vertical layout is banner, menu, large said continuous video, rest of the page with text and images.
  15. [jiatyan] developer is arguing that since someone can scroll past the video (and thus 'hide' the video, SC 2.2.2 doesn't apply.
  16. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 20 18:01
    [jiatyan] It's pedantic. But they are saying that because video maybe hidden by scrolling past, it is not "presented in parallel with other content".
  17. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 20 18:13
    [jhausler] @elisaf , we built our calendar in salesforce using a list for each day, topped off with a heading describing the day.
  18. [jhausler] our tester’s liked it.
  19. [elisaf] @jhausler That's what I was thinking of as we do list events like this in a mobile view, but I'm getting some pushback on removing the calendar view -- any suggestions on how to respond to that?
  20. [jhausler] oh.. we still have the calendar view.. and it looks like yours looks
  21. [jhausler] it’s just semantically a bunch of lists with hidden headings above each day.
  22. [jhausler] Screen Shot 2016-10-20 at 12.17.06 PM.png
  23. [elisaf] Is that something users can toggle between? If so, do you find that they prefer a certain view?
    [jhausler] yeah, they can choose day, week or month
  24. [jhausler] i can’t speak to the numbers of who prefers what.. i honestly don’t know
  25. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 20 18:19
    [jhausler] that was as screenshot of the new salesforce calendar above, btw.
  26. [skerrvy] @jiatyan is there text on the video? is there content on top of the video background?
  27. [jhausler] @elisaf you can msg me if you want to talk more about it.. but essentially, we use the same "heading with list of events” component on day, week and month views.
  28. [jhausler] the view really just decides how many are the page at the same time.
  29. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 20 18:27
    [jiatyan] @skerrvy tiny line of credits on the video, no content on top of the video background. Yes to content (main menu) above the video.
  30. [skerrvy] is there audio as well?
  31. [doeg] @jhausler just curious — do you have dedicated accessibility testers, or were these user tests? (Or something else)
  32. [jiatyan] no audio @skerrvy
  33. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 20 18:34
    [jhausler] @doeg we have a dedicated accessibility team and we ran through a few prototypes that @cordelia built. we chose the best option in our opinion as a team. then 3rd party testers signed off on the accessibility of it. it hasn’t been user tested by people with AT.
  34. [doeg] @jhausler interesting! Thanks :)
  35. [skerrvy] @jiatyan well if there is content in the video (including text credits - basically anything that conveys information) needs to have a text alternative. see SC 1.1.1 and 1.2.1
  36. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 20 18:39
    [jiatyan] @skerrvy it's an aerial flyby of their building, just for kicks ;) Not much information there.
  37. [skerrvy] @jiatyan for the specific arguments you mentioned, the ‘Understanding 2.2.2 gives two examples of content that is ‘not presented in parallel with other content’ - both of which state that the animation takes up the entire page… putting a menu or other content alongside the video would be in parallel with other content.
  38. [skerrvy] well the credits would be information that is not conveyed to all users.
  39. [jiatyan] Yea, best I can come up with is that menu is in parallel. Developer argument is that video may be scrolled off the screen so that it is not distracting.
  40. [skerrvy] but this page does not have a mechanism to pause, stop or hide it. the user having a scroll wheel on the mouse does not mean the page provides a means to hide it.
  41. [jiatyan] Guess my question, does SC 2.2.2 apply to only full screen/viewport or on the entire long page?
  42. [skerrvy] the video player (and the logic that the user can scroll past it) would render the menu unusable since it’s above the video content.
  43. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 20 18:45
    [skerrvy] Conformance Requirement 2 might help:
    1. Full pages: Conformance (and conformance level) is for full Web page(s) only, and cannot be achieved if part of a Web page is excluded.
  44. [jiatyan] sweet!
  45. [jiatyan] thanks @skerrvy, for reading everything :)
  46. [skerrvy] yea… I would argue that the page does not have a mechanism to pause/stop/hide the player. I haven’t been able to find a definition for the ‘parallel with other content’ other than using the examples they mention in the examples of success criterion that the wcag provides.
  47. [jiatyan] as in they can't use "scroll" to mean "hide"?
  48. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 20 18:51
    [skerrvy] that’s right. the page does not provide the scrolling mechanism. I know you can make something scroll in CSS, but you aren’t providing a mechanism to hide it.
  49. [skerrvy] *I hope someone more knowledgeable on the finer points will correct me if I’m wrong about any of this. I’ve had to fight against background video a number of times. I usually win by showing how awful it is to page performance.
  50. [jiatyan] That's a very fine line to draw - page (rather than browser) providing the scrolling mechanism. :)
  51. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 20 18:56
    [skerrvy] so the specific case that concerns me is if a user doesn’t have the ability to scroll. I know Apple hides the scrollbars by default in their newer OS versions (you can turn it on in the system preferences).
  52. [skerrvy] if the user relies on those scrollbars and is using a device that doesn’t have other scrolling capabilities, they would not be able to avoid that. also that you can’t hide the video and use the menu at the same time. you have provided zero mechanisms to hide the video and interact with the page.
  53. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 20 19:05
    [skerrvy] in debates like this I like to try to have them understand why these guidelines exist - to show the wide variety of people that you are making your website unusable to (including but not limited to ADD, vestibular disorders, epileptics, visually impaired users), as well as the performance hit just for not placing a pause button on the video.
  54. [skerrvy] I hope this helps!
  55. [jiatyan] I see what you mean. Never thought user not having the ability to scroll. That's helpful.
  56. [jiatyan] Thanks, @skerrvy
  57. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 20 19:30
    [drtomlins] anyone around familiar with bootstrap?? In doing an audit using SiteImprove, it flags some bootstrap code for aria-multiselectable, says it's invalid for the role :\ - it's an accordion (which I hate but... )
  58. [skerrvy] I believe bootstrap uses the ‘tablist’ role for accordions. it seems like aria-multiselectable is a valid property: https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#tablist
  59. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 20 19:38
    [drtomlins] ok.. I did find that, so makes me thing SI is incorrectly flagging this as an error when there is none. We have role="tablist"
    aria-multiselectable="true" in our code. I'm still learning the ins and outs of ARIA so I wanted to be sure I wasn't missing something else :)
  60. [drtomlins] It also seems that it doesn't like our dynamically populated tab ID for aria-controls ... :\
  61. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 20 23:09
    [jessebeach] Has anyone else noticed that comboboxes are not working in OSX with VoiceOver on Chrome or Safari? http://oaa-accessibility.org/example/11/
  62. [jessebeach] comboboxes are working with JAWS 16 on Windows 8 with Chrome
  63. [jessebeach] @jhausler ^
  64. [jessebeach] I'm getting the same behavior on Safari
  65. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Oct 20 23:15
    [jessebeach] ax-tree.png
  66. [jessebeach] ^ @cookiecrook