Archive index

A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 1st of November 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 08:22
    [michiel] Good morning a11y people :gift_heart:
  2. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 08:51
    [jv] Morning
  3. Peter Krautzberger
    @pkra
    Nov 01 09:09
    morning.
  4. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 09:12
    [jv] https://twitter.com/rogerjohansson/status/793377681899294721
  5. Peter Krautzberger
    @pkra
    Nov 01 09:16
    @michiel any thoughts on how one could lobby for changing to role=math to something sensible? Asking for a friend.
  6. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 09:28
    [michiel] pkra: what are the alternatives?
  7. [michiel] Aside from <math> :P
  8. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 09:36
    [michiel] pkra
  9. Peter Krautzberger
    @pkra
    Nov 01 09:50
    On the one hand, it could become an indicator for AT that the DOM fragment is mathematical so that they can adapt to that (e.g., change punctuation voicing, announce prefixes)
  10. Peter Krautzberger
    @pkra
    Nov 01 09:55
    On the other hand, it could be the starting point towards proper aria roles / semantics for mathematics in HTML -- the current "definition" (all children are hidden) is kind of the opposite.
  11. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 09:57
    [michiel] As you said earlier, role=math is a mess.
  12. Peter Krautzberger
    @pkra
    Nov 01 09:57
    (Though the latter is very optimistic)
  13. (since there's no successful standard for semantic math notation)
  14. Well, it's very easy now that I know the definition ;-)
  15. Just that that definition is utterly useless.
  16. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 10:09
    [michiel] In any case, if you want to lobby for it open an issue at ARIA’s repo :)
  17. Peter Krautzberger
    @pkra
    Nov 01 10:16
    that's what I wanted to know. Thanks.
  18. sophieschoice
    @sophieschoice
    Nov 01 12:14
    @StommePoes Well, I don't believe Apple is a saint, but since Apple has products to sell, and Google heavily relies on your data to sell to adveriPhone instead of selling products, I want to quit Google. At least changing my Android-phone for an iPhone.
  19. @StommePoes But you are right: operating systems should be accessible for every user, so that making an informed decision is easier.
  20. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Nov 01 12:23
    it's true, Apple's goal is more to force you into their walled garden of closed-source and non-interoperability so that you are a customer no matter which way you go. So their spying is less for selling to third parties but more to figure out how to keep you close by
  21. and, honestly, for whatever reason, apple walks the walk on a11y, compared to google. google talks big and like facebook they have dedicated a11y teams, but in Apple you see the, pun intended, fruits
  22. in fact I'd put down bets that microsoft will catch up to apple in that regard before google does, if it even ever does.
  23. sophieschoice
    @sophieschoice
    Nov 01 12:26
    Yeah, agreed. Google will never catch up. Android is too fragmented for that.
  24. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Nov 01 12:27
    I'll separate android from other google products for that reason
  25. manufacturers and service providers have much influence.
  26. curious what samsung will do
  27. sophieschoice
    @sophieschoice
    Nov 01 12:28
    ??
  28. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Nov 01 12:28
    I didn't even know they had their own browser until @torgo showed up at Fronteers to talk about PWAs
  29. sophieschoice
    @sophieschoice
    Nov 01 12:28
    is Samsung developing their own system?
  30. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Nov 01 12:29
    Samsung has both a browser and they make hardware. I think that combo is how a company can go further with stuff like security and a11y
  31. I dunno if they're doing a whole OS, I don't think so, but I was like "whoa, they have a browser?"
  32. same with TVs, they make the TV and they have the browser on it.
  33. sophieschoice
    @sophieschoice
    Nov 01 12:30
    Ah, getcha
  34. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Nov 01 12:36
    This is great: https://accessibility.blog.gov.uk/2016/11/01/results-of-the-2016-gov-uk-assistive-technology-survey/ I knew about browseAloud, but didn't know about Read&Write or ClaraRead (Clara comes with something from Dragon for echo-back)
  35. and people having Dragon 12 makes sense-- it was a good version, not many bugs, and I only have 13 because that's what was out when I bought it.
  36. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Nov 01 13:29
    Why is Jaws 15 used more than 16?
  37. XP support?
  38. I'm not familiar with Read and Write. How does such software work?
  39. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Nov 01 13:32
    it apparently does all sorts of things but I would have to buy it to learn them all
  40. but you can highlight text to be read out loud, you can get spelling suggestions
  41. JAWS 15 more than 16 prolly becuase people who don't have 2-year SMAs didn't want to pay to upgrade
  42. while those who bought 16 might have done so?
  43. I bought 16 but the disc version specifically does not listen for upgrades
  44. but the version I had downloaded from the site did
  45. I got the disc in the mail but it was Dutch so I thought, I'll just download the English one instead. It worked until there was an update, the update killed JAWS and my computer.
  46. So I wiped it and installed the disc instead.
  47. but the disc is Dutch so it's a pain to use.
  48. all the stuff I test is in English.
  49. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Nov 01 13:35
    Well, it seemed odd since 17 is the most used, then 15, then 16. I figured the numbers would die out with each new version
  50. Can't contact support about getting a proper installer?
  51. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 13:40
    [michiel] StommePoes, sophieschoice: Samsung has their own OS, Tizen or something.
  52. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Nov 01 13:41
    I didn't think that was an OS
  53. if it is, it's even further along that I thought.
  54. @powrsurg I have 16, so I'll only bug them when I want 17 or 18.
  55. For the testing I'm doing, I didn't see too many super-awesome-musthaves in 17.
  56. as far as "is it XP?" I would say that's for the 11 and under group
  57. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Nov 01 13:48
    I'm still trying to push my work for a JAWS license
  58. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Nov 01 13:52
    If you really want JAWS just buy it.
  59. NVDA would have been fine for me but work paid for my JAWS because, for whatever reason, many teams specifically say "it needs to work in JAWS"
  60. kinda dumb, they should be saying "needs to be accessible to users with screen readers"
  61. but anyway
  62. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Nov 01 13:56
    I'm surprised they know about specific SR software
  63. JP DeVries
    @jpdevries
    Nov 01 14:45
    Good whatever time it is for you Slackers. Has anyone heard any whispers or a <input type=emoji> input (that limits the keyboard to just emojis)? I just started thining about one and am wondering if it has been discussed / proposed
  64. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 14:50
    [michiel] It’s been proposed within WCIG
  65. [michiel] WICG*
  66. [michiel] https://discourse.wicg.io/t/invoke-emoji-input/1030
  67. [michiel] You can still contribute there though thumbsup emoji
  68. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Nov 01 17:00
    Stupid question: how does one tab to the pop-out calendar for <input type="date"> in Chrome. If you click on it with a mouse the individual parts seem keyboardable, but I can't get to it through just a keyboard
  69. ... and as soon as I ask I find it's alt+arrow down
  70. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 17:02
    [marcysutton] Ah yes I was about to say try a key combination =D
  71. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 17:40
    [michiel] Next role=drinks is November 12th in Brighton :raised_hands::skin-tone-3: https://twitter.com/roledrinks/status/793506460684656641
  72. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 17:50
    [karlgroves] Any ASP.net folks here?
  73. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 18:59
    [jhausler] Any tips on an open source grid that can handle large amounts of data? can/should be used in a large scale app?
  74. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 19:05
    [michiel] <table>?
  75. [cerebralposi] Hey all, I wrote a blog post last week about one-handed GUI navigation. I forgot to share it here when I initially posted it. Check it out! blog.cerebralposi.net
  76. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 19:13
    [jhausler] @michiel yes, one that’s table based.
  77. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Nov 01 19:24
    @jhausler - I'm guessing you wouldn't want to use our one :)
  78. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 19:24
    [jhausler] it’s not for me actually
  79. [jhausler] if it’s open source and it can be used “prime time” i’m more than happy to recommend it
  80. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Nov 01 19:25
    it is open source - oraclejet.org
  81. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 19:25
    [jhausler] salesforce built our own, it’s just not open source.
  82. [jhausler] cool, thanks James
  83. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Nov 01 19:25
    aria grids didn't do everything we needed so there is an application wrapping it.
  84. but does fetch on demand etc etc etc
  85. works best with knockout
  86. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 19:26
    [jhausler] knockout? not familiar with that
  87. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Nov 01 19:26
    http://knockoutjs.com/
  88. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 19:27
    [jhausler] gotcha
  89. [jhausler] hadn’t heard of that one
  90. Thierry Koblentz
    @thierryk
    Nov 01 20:54

    From knockoutjs.com

    Small & lightweight — 54kb minified

    Doesn't look small and lightweight to me...

  91. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Nov 01 21:19
    We are experimenting with using the Fullscreen API on an iframe. We realized that focus is not moved to the iframe when that happens (and nothing tells you to press ESC to exit full screen, though since it's a screen reader I think that makes sense), and that you can tab outside the iframe then. Should we implement some type of trap and inform them that they need to press ESC to get out of full screen mode?
  92. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Nov 01 21:30
    Also, why does NVDA read off changes in an aria-live div in a different browser tab window? I'm in the middle of testing stuff and another tab had a counter and it was being read off. Confused the heck out of me.
  93. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 22:05
    [caesar] @powrsurg May I ask where you got your previous stats about JAWS 17 and 15 being used more than other versions? On a separate note, I got notified that v18 is out!?
  94. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 22:11
    [michiel] :tada:
  95. stevefaulkner
    @stevefaulkner
    Nov 01 22:39
    @caesar maybe here https://accessibility.blog.gov.uk/2016/11/01/results-of-the-2016-gov-uk-assistive-technology-survey/
  96. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Nov 01 22:40
    [caesar] Great, thanks @stevef!
  97. stevefaulkner
    @stevefaulkner
    Nov 01 22:41
    de nada
  98. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Nov 01 23:11
    yeah, that was it