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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 8th of February 2017

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 08 01:48
    [cordelia] @jacquidow probably here!
  2. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Feb 08 02:37
    @sri429 one of the problems with the aria grid (as implemented in jaws anyway) is that any child links are not available except in the context of the cell. So list links (for example) will not show them.
  3. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 08 05:40
    [mattbartist] unsure if this has been posted in here before now or posted in another channel, but i just stumbled across this video and wanted to share it. it seems like a great video for getting the point across to others who might not know much about a11y. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f31oufqFSM
  4. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Feb 08 12:03
    I wonder why I keep seeing pixels in conversations of mobile w3c standards https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Touch_and_Pointer_Guideline_-_WCAG_WG_Feedback
  5. and why isn't there anything about minimum distances between targets? It seems the manufacturers are stating these
  6. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 08 12:05
    [tink] That is precisely the argument that has been going on for months now... that distance from device is relevant. It seems the message is difficult for some to process though.
  7. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Feb 08 12:06
    oh that too
  8. distance from device, I meant (assuming smart-phone distance) distance between the targets on the screen... that is, your single finger/whatever can't hit two targets at once, or too easily hit an unwanted target in an attempt to hit a wanted target
  9. so microsoft is saying at least 2mm
  10. and again that's assuming we're at typical phone distances, not kiost/ATM arm-length distances,which seem to demand much larger everythings
  11. I think they should have rules on allowed parallax too.. I can barely use our train ticket machines because most people are too tall, most short people are too short, everyone not exactly at a certain height can't reliably hit any targets, ug
  12. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 08 12:09
    [tink] I believe @alastc has been looking at that.
  13. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Feb 08 12:11
    Our designers read the outdated apple docs once long ago and now we have these 44px buttons with no space between them. aaaaarg
  14. and they're all kids with perfect vision and fingers and grew up on these damn touchphone things so they have no problems. On. My. Lawn.
  15. I'm going to start doing a Mallory test. If it takes Mallory more than 3 times to click the right button, it doesn't get the ok and they build it without my consent. (which they do already anyway)
  16. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Feb 08 15:43
    @StommePoes well you have a new mobile a11y expert to fix all of this now right?
  17. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 08 16:35
    [melsumner] I need some help interpreting some of the guidance on keyboard interactions with data grids.
  18. [melsumner] Specifically on the guidance regarding focusing on the cell or the interactive element inside of it
  19. [melsumner] I'm using arrow keys to move around inside of the grid, but am a bit perplexed as to a reasonable approach to what to do with interactive elements (like a form input) inside of a cell
  20. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Feb 08 16:39
    form input consumes arrows so you focus on the cell
  21. (well as long as it is text)
  22. If it is a checkbox/button/radio you can focus on the checkbox/button/radio
  23. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 08 16:40
    [melsumner] instead of the cell
  24. [melsumner] Correct?
  25. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Feb 08 16:40
    yeah - so if the thing in the cell doesn't consume arrows then you can move focus to it
  26. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 08 16:41
    [melsumner] Ok thumbsup emoji
  27. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Feb 08 16:41
    the practices doc has a whole section on tis
  28. https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices-1.1/#grid
  29. https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices-1.1/#gridNav
  30. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 08 16:42
    [melsumner] Yes I am reading it now but the specific section on "Whether to Focus on a cell or an element inside it" confused my brain for a second
  31. [melsumner] Optimal cell design option #1, specifically
  32. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Feb 08 16:43
    if it isn't clear please log an issue in github so we can fix it
  33. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 08 16:44
    [melsumner] Okay
  34. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 08 17:54
    [conley] FYI - https://mindtheshift.wordpress.com/2015/04/02/r-i-p-rem-viva-css-reference-pixel/comment-page-1/#comment-281
  35. [conley] Poor conclusion...
  36. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 08 18:17
    [jstern] I found this link in the comments: https://developers.google.com/speed/docs/insights/UseLegibleFontSizes
  37. [jstern] is that really the recommendation?
  38. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 08 18:38
    [deconspray] Would love to hear other opinions on how this will impact our accessibility work, i.e. less urgency/importance on accessibility in companies.
    http://www.adatitleiii.com/2017/02/executive-order-likely-dooms-website-regulations-for-public-accommodations/
  39. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 08 18:57

    [cryberg] Hi all! I could use some help, if anyone has a minute to spare.
    I'm dealing with a table of data that uses infinite scrolling; the idea being that there is so much data to fetch from the server, that loading it in batches while you scroll will ameliorate any performance issues. So, when you scroll to the end of the table, a new row will be added to the end that will show the message "Loading more records..." and then be replaced with the newly fetched batch of table rows.
    I want to notify a screen reader user when the "Loading more records..." message has shown up, and I thought that wrapping the message in a div with role="alert" would do the trick. However....it's not working.... the message is never announced.

    When I tried to test it out by just statically adding a role="alert" message to the table, without being triggered by the infinite scrolling, it announced just fine.

  40. [cryberg] Any ideas on what would prevent the alert message from being announced?
  41. [cordelia] I believe that if you just inject an element into the UI with role=“alert”, it won’t read out that message. But if you have an existing role=“alert” and update the text inside of it, it will read out the message.
  42. [cryberg] that's what I found with aria-live, but when I tested with a static role="alert, injecting does in fact work
  43. [cryberg] with the current set up, we can't have an existing element to update, which is why I'm not going with aria-live.
  44. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 08 20:47
    [sitaggart] Yeah, just injecting an alert should work most of the time. It has spotty support in VO, either Chrome or Safari doesn't work. Maybe it's because it's in the table? Tried appending it after the table itself and see if it works @cryberg ?
  45. [conley] @cryberg check out this quick video from Google's team regarding alerts, their solution for VO might be helpful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lzAj1ahRSI&index=3&list=PLNYkxOF6rcICWx0C9LVWWVqvHlYJyqw7g
  46. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Feb 08 20:52
    Who should we source for keyboard events to support? I tend to use oaa-accessibility.org since it ranks so highly on google and generally seems good, but I'm finding more and more they don't match https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices-1.1/
  47. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 08 21:47
    [jessebeach] Has anyone else noticed that combobox + aria-activedescendant options are not being announced by VoiceOver on OSX with Chrome or Safari? I built a pen to test on: http://codepen.io/jessebeach/pen/OWBJRy I tried with JAWS 16 on Windows 8 using Chrome and the options are read back as expected
  48. [jessebeach] Is my example implementation wrong?
  49. [cordelia] I’ve also noticed this. :(
  50. [cordelia] Looking at the Slack logs, it’s been broken since October.
  51. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 08 22:49
    [melsumner] use aria-live instead @cryberg
  52. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 08 23:36
    [jessebeach] Are there any Apple devs in the general group who can get this escalate?
  53. [jessebeach] @powrsurg , I'd stick with https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices-1.1/
  54. [karlgroves] @jessebeach: @cookiecrook is your guy for that.
  55. [jessebeach] @melsumner > I'm using arrow keys to move around inside of the grid, but am a bit perplexed as to a reasonable approach to what to do with interactive elements (like a form input) inside of a cell
  56. [jessebeach] If the gridcell just contains text content, focus the cell
  57. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Feb 08 23:38
    @jessebeach - I'm assuming it is logged somwhere right?
  58. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 08 23:38
    [jessebeach] If the gridcell contains interactive content, focus that content
  59. [melsumner] @jessebeach: I have wrapped my head around pressing enter on something that is editable and then using escape/f2 to toggle back to navigation
  60. [jessebeach] In our implementation, we provide each cell with a FocusStrategy object, the FocusGridCellFocusStrategy being the default
  61. [jessebeach] cool, that works, too
  62. [melsumner] Once I figured out how I the toggling navigation works, it got a lot easier to plan for
  63. [jessebeach] +1
  64. [jessebeach] @cookiecrook I have no idea how one logs bugs against VoiceOver or searches existing bugs :)
  65. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Feb 08 23:43
    @jessebeach - the only way I know to log VO bugs is to send email to accessibility@apple.com . Make sure to include a testcase and to state the OS (OSX or iOS) and version
  66. and of course there is no public tracker
  67. (but we have the same issue there so I can't complain too much)
  68. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 08 23:59
    [shawn.henning] @jessebeach: I would also call the Apple Accessibility line and have them escalate it from their side. Engineer who worked on VO said to email as well as call and talk to a Sr. Tech Support person.