Archive index

A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 9th of February 2017

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. James Nurthen
    @jnurthen
    Feb 09 00:03
    @jessebeach it is also possible that you have a developer relations contact you could reach out to.
  2. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 00:20
    [jessebeach] @shawn.henning do you have that number? DM me?
  3. [jessebeach] @cookiecrook pointed me to the webkit issue tracker. I found an aria-activedescendant issue: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161734
  4. [jessebeach] If you have time and are affected by this issue, please comment
  5. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 00:27
    [shawn.henning] @jessebeach: it is in my Favorites list: (877) 204-3930204-3930)
  6. [shawn.henning] Good for anyone using accessibility tools on apple products.
  7. [jessebeach] As a millenial, using my smart phone to make phone calls is terrifying
  8. [jessebeach] But for this, I will face my fear :)
  9. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 00:33
    [shawn.henning] The tech support folks are super friendly, though they are used to helping by teaching, you sometimes have to be explicit that you are logging an issue.
  10. [shawn.henning] Best to have the website, browser, etc up and ready to go so they can repro on their side.
  11. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 00:48
    [alice] @jessebeach Would be interested to learn whether this is VO bug or parallel bugs in Safari and Chrome
  12. [alice] although if it's new in both it seems more likely to be a VO issue
  13. [alice] Does it work in FF on mac/
  14. [alice] ?
  15. [jessebeach] Unforetunately FF doesn't work with VO on a Mac
  16. [alice] ah right
  17. [jessebeach] The only browsers we have are webkit bases, so no way to compare
  18. [jessebeach] I remember that Chrome stopped working, then Safari stopped working
  19. [alice] interesting
  20. [alice] I mean Chrome is no longer webkit obviously, but it is a fork
  21. [shawn.henning] Yeah, i read an article on FF trying to get back in the lead and my husband said they had some a11y tools in the latest version so I downloaded it... Busy, Busy, Busy, crash...
  22. [alice] :|
  23. [melsumner] that’s interesting to hear since FF + NVDA is the best (free) combination for Windows
  24. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 00:54
    [melsumner] I have a really hard time with Safari and VoiceOver, it’s my least favorite right now
  25. [shawn.henning] To be fair I stopped using Chrome due to the frequent "Busy" states and the fact that a bunch of useful UI was hidden to Voice Over in the GMail interface. The info was available in Safari. This was a while ago and I should revisit chrome sometime.
  26. [alice] @shawn.henning Feel free to ping me if you do, would love to hear what issues you run into
  27. [alice] The team have been putting a bunch of work in across platforms
  28. [alice] And we do have at least one VO user on the team, but external perspectives don't have the curse of knowledge :)
  29. [shawn.henning] @melsumner: What issues are you hitting with VO and Safari? I know the interaction paradigm is different than many Windows screen readers, but as I have not really gotten good at any one of the Windows ones I can't compare and contrast much.
  30. [melsumner] @shawn.henning that’s curious to me! Maybe it’s one of those “whichever one you learned first”?
  31. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 00:59
    [melsumner] I feel like I can’t find anything, and I get trapped/lost often
  32. [melsumner] again maybe it’s just that I can fly through an app if it’s FF + NVDA
  33. [melsumner] because that’s the one I invested learning into first (since I had to for my job)
  34. [shawn.henning] @alice: I will. I think the thing that scared me most about Chrome was that parts of Google's own UI were not surfaced in the DOM at the time making it hard to find things or know where I was at.
  35. [alice] ah yep, makes sense. I think @ellyjones has been doing a bunch of work on that!
  36. [shawn.henning] @melsumner: Yes, I see that. The VO keys plus right/left arrows are your friend, though it is so much faster to nav by header or link or use Find to go right where you need to go.
  37. [melsumner] /nod
  38. [shawn.henning] If you have to use the "window chooser" it is an app dev fail in my opinion, but that is something I have to resort to often.
  39. [caesar] Yeah, I'm primarily a JAWS user, but in my experience, I don't really understand the hate that Mac VO gets...
  40. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 01:05
    [shawn.henning] Apple has a slightly stale and annoying to navigate Voice Over tutorial which takes you through most of what you need to know.
  41. [shawn.henning] Here is the commands reference:
  42. [shawn.henning] https://www.apple.com/voiceover/info/guide/_1131.html
  43. [shawn.henning] I have been playing with Windows 10 Anniversary Edition Narrator and they seem to try to be like Voice Over and Windows screen readers... Also they have a lot more to implement. I'm trying to figure out when I won't have to remind folks they need a 3rd party product to make Windows accessible.
  44. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 01:13
    [shawn.henning] What I hear from screen reader users on the Windows side through the ACB affiliate Washington Council of the Blind is basically to use Windows 7 with NVD or Jaws which is scary due to its age.
  45. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 01:47
    [caesar] Is there really a significant difference when MS changed the accessibility stuff between 7 and 8? I don't claim to understand the technicalities of it, but in my limited experience, I haven't noticed anything I would attribute to being on a different version of Windows (although only in regards to Web Browsing).
  46. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 02:18
    [shawn.henning] Win8 was. Terrible as far as multiple people have said. ONe is an assistive technology trainer. I am not sure if this is verifiably true or just an aversion to change.
  47. [shawn.henning] In Win 10 Edge and Jaws issues were a problem.
  48. [shawn.henning] I think some of the issues might have been the screen reader needing to update versions for the new windows version so early adopters had a tale of woe to tell.
  49. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 02:30
    [caesar] Agreed. You'd also have to tease out the problems with Windows 8 and the usability of Metro/Modern/Windows UI versus actual accessibility (screen reader compatibility) issues...
  50. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 02:51
    [sitaggart] In my Combobox frustration and wanting to find a working solution, and exploring the various options in implementation
  51. [sitaggart] I recently built this http://combobox-compare.surge.sh/
  52. [sitaggart] (Each combobox hits the Github search API which is rate limited with no API key. So if you don't see options, that's why)
  53. [sitaggart] and from that, I built a really big spreadsheet
  54. [sitaggart] https://cl.ly/j5b4/Screen%20Shot%202017-02-08%20at%206.52.41%20PM.png
  55. [sitaggart] ^ Screenshot of said spreasheet, showing a matrix of Browsers and AT, with HTML markup variations, and features I expect, and scored by combination
  56. [caesar] Wow! Impressive piece of work
  57. [sitaggart] If I get time I'll write it all up and make the support matrix (accessible), code, and examples all publicly available
  58. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 20:04
    [david] Hello, anyone have any tips on recruiting accessibility testers? I work in app development and would love to get feedback from users
  59. [jessebeach] @david if you live near a major city, there are often advocacy organizations who can connect you with their clients
  60. [david] @jessebeach We have a large university in town, and they haven't been helpful in connecting with users.
  61. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 20:14
    [jessebeach] @sitaggart wow!
  62. [jessebeach] @sitaggart What does "with Groups" mean?
  63. [sitaggart] We often show a dropdown list of options, which are grouped together with sub headings
  64. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 20:19
    [sitaggart] in exactly the same way you can group options in a select element
  65. [sitaggart] `\
  66. [sitaggart] I want the group headings to be announced
  67. [sitaggart] I also want the number count of each group to correct
  68. [sitaggart] NVDA does an Excellent job
  69. [sitaggart] https://cl.ly/j60K/Screen%20Shot%202017-02-09%20at%2012.16.35%20PM.png
  70. [sitaggart] So I'd expect as I arrow to the first option, the AT to say something like " List Top Favourites : Acme - 600 Widgets 1 of 3"
  71. [cordelia] wow, @sitaggart, great analysis spreadsheet!
  72. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Feb 09 20:24
    @conley @jstern it's sad to see google perpetuating something that BREAKS user settings like that :(
  73. I set my fonts to LARGE in chromium. Everywhere the dev set stuff in px, they're SMALL. Only the (r)em'd stuff is at my settings.
  74. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Feb 09 20:26
    Does the Firefox aXe extension not get updated, or need a toggle to understand ARIA 1.1? I just used aria-current="page" for the first time and it's yelling at me for it
  75. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 20:27
    [jessebeach] @sitaggart !!!! I think you solved the combobox/activedescendant myster
  76. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Feb 09 20:27
    @sittagart that's a great graph... when you write it up pls post it here as well
  77. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 20:28
    [jessebeach] If a "combobox" has role="textbox", then aria-activedescendant works!
  78. [sitaggart] Correct, that's my main finding from most of this. Safari is still borked
  79. [jessebeach] That's amazing. Thank you for doing this work
  80. [sitaggart] But if you auto update the value in the field, you can kind hack Safari to announce it
  81. [jessebeach] @sitaggart would you mind commenting on these bugs? https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=161734 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=167680
  82. [jessebeach] a good point
  83. [sitaggart] I probably should, shouldn't I
  84. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Feb 09 20:33
    Can someone add iOS to that list or do these comboboxes suck on mobile? (seeings how iPhones had some issues about no-focus-no-listbox or similar or that aria specs talk about keyboard)
  85. Mallory
    @StommePoes
    Feb 09 20:40
    Are those comboboxes in the tab order of the spreadsheet?
  86. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 20:42
    [sitaggart] you guessed correctly
  87. [sitaggart] they are
  88. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 20:50
    [marcysutton] @powersurg it does get updated periodically, we've added support for aria-current in our internal fork but it won't be released to the public for a month or two
  89. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 22:10
    [jessebeach] @sitaggart did you somehow automate those combobox checks?
  90. [sitaggart] hahahahahahahahahahahaaha I wish!!!!
  91. [jessebeach] nerds :(
  92. [jessebeach] Was hoping you'd somehow cracked that problem
  93. [sitaggart] One can dream
  94. [sitaggart] One day, someone very smart will come up with something
  95. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Feb 09 23:00
    [conley] http://jalopnik.com/heres-what-those-bumps-in-the-sidewalk-are-for-1792172374