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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 28th of September 2017

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Sep 28 14:01
    Someone was asking me to test whether this script we had to generate a PDF from HTML produced an accessible PDF. The original HTML had alt text on the images, but NVDA did not seem to read them off when inside Adobe Reader. Does this mean that the PDF is not accessible, or is there something special I need to do to make it read the alt text that I'm on aware. Beyond that the PDF seems to be fine to me so I'm confused about this.
  2. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 14:08
    [eric] double check Figures Alternate Text in the Acrobat Accessibility Checker to see if alt text transposed successfully
  3. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Sep 28 14:13
    When I open the document in Reader it lists it as an untagged document, so I'm not too hopeful here.
  4. I do not have Acrobat Pro, which I thought you needed for the chcker
  5. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 14:14
    [eric] sounds like the script isn’t making good on it’s promises

  6. [karlgroves] > this script we had to generate a PDF from HTML produced an accessible PDF

    It doesn’t.
    Unfortunately nothing I’ve ever found can take arbitrary HTML into accessible PDF.

  7. [karlgroves] If you’d like, I can generate a quick report from Acrobat Pro if you’d like
  8. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Sep 28 14:27
    It would be a PDF generated from clicking on the download button on: https://collabornation.net/lms/certviewer/YYX742
  9. From what I'm thinking, this a big fat no
  10. I'm still arguing with people about whether or not the seal in the corner has alt text that conveys the right meaning, and just noticed it has a title attribute that I argued for but different alt text because ... I think some goofed ...
  11. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 14:34
    [droidpinkman] what does the text say?
  12. [droidpinkman] if it says "this is not a seal" probably not good alt text ;)
  13. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Sep 28 14:35
    The alt is "Certificate Seal" while the title says the "[product name] / [company] seal" ...
  14. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 14:36
    [karlgroves] I have good news. It is universally inaccessible. When I hit “Download” I get an empty PDF.
  15. [droidpinkman] I think "Certificate Seal" is just a waste to say aloud and not sure many would care. If the seal is of importance in some sort of regulatory way maybe "certificate seal+[purpose of seal]" would work.
  16. [droidpinkman] if u close your eyes and hear "certificate seal" you're left wondering what the hell it is for
  17. [droidpinkman] but u got bigger problems right now with an empty PDF
  18. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Sep 28 14:44
    what?
  19. ...
  20. every time I download it I get an actual PDF, regardless of browser .
  21. well, other certs can have other text in there. Some people will be using the certificate builder to add images of text (since they can't have custom fonts) and can add alt text of the text in the image ...
  22. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 14:49
    [eric] I think the gist is:
    1. The script that generates PDF does not produce accessible PDFs
    2. There’s some abuse of the title attribute in that seal image, but that is unrelated to the first problem, which is ensuring a PDF is accessible
  23. [eric] if dynamically-generated compliant PDFs is a unsurmountable obstacle, I am thinking a potential workaround could be to ditch PDFs entirely in favor of some print stylesheets that turn semantic, accessible markup into something you could print out
  24. [droidpinkman] way better approach IMO
  25. [droidpinkman] @print
  26. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Sep 28 14:52
    yeah, this should print better, but we have clients that really wanted a download button because reasons ...
  27. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 14:52
    [eric] you can save a PDF from most print dialog menus, maybe a little copy on how to do that?
  28. [eric] I mean, people generally don’t read, but at least you’re providing some help to the ones that do…
  29. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Sep 28 14:53
    ... okay, so we just determined that if the internet speed is slow and the IP detection for what state you're in is slow it's what generated a blank PDF ...
  30. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 14:53
    [droidpinkman] <a href="#">Download</a> which just actually leads to print window
  31. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Sep 28 14:54
    yeah, but people wanted a PDF too so it was easier to email. Trust me, I prefer the web page for all of it, but we were hoping to get this all right
  32. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 14:55
    [eric] oh believe me, I am no stranger to business’ unquenchable lust for PDFs
  33. [droidpinkman] lol and restaurants
  34. [droidpinkman] they love PDF
  35. powrsurg
    @powrsurg
    Sep 28 14:56
    https://collabornation.net/lms/certviewer/WK932T this page doesn't do the state based detection so that should always work with the PDF generation ...
  36. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 15:22
    [susanjrobertson] hello! does anyone have an example of an accessible type ahead for search? i've searched and found some discussions from WebAim list, but the examples in one 404s
  37. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 15:31
    [pstonier] @susanjrobertson What about something like this? https://haltersweb.github.io/Accessibility/autocomplete.html
  38. [quidkid] curious to know everyone thoughts: Let’s say you have a section that consists of tab panel where the tabs are visually below the panel but in the DOM, it is above and normally gets first first focus before the tab panel. On a click on a menu anchor link that leads you to this section, should focus be on the first tab or first heading within the tabpanel or the <section> tag?
  39. [susanjrobertson] thanks @pstonier
  40. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 15:41
    [susanjrobertson] also i found a google a11y lesson on these, which is helpful for the dev I'm working with
  41. [susanjrobertson] in case anyone is interested https://webaccessibility.withgoogle.com/unit?unit=6&lesson=13
  42. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 16:09
    [shawn.henning] Sorry if this has been asked. The people who build slack do not seem to think that reading the message content of a search result is important to VoiceOver users....
  43. [shawn.henning] Does anyone know if disabling Caps Lock in macOS still passes through the key press to a VM like Parallels? I'm ramping up on JAWS and I expect it is best to learn with the laptop keyboard configuration. For now I am using PC hardware, but I would like to run in a VM.
  44. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 16:50
    [chad] @shawn.henning For me, a windows 10 pc running in a virtualbox VM on a mac does not receive the capslock keystroke when I have capslock disabled
  45. [chad] not sure if the same would be true for parallels
  46. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 17:06
    [shawn.henning] Have others solved the Windows screen reader modifier key in a VM?
  47. [eric] I bought a keyboard (sweat smile emoji)
  48. [eric] I did play around a little with Karabiner Elements and Keyboard Maestro, but didn’t the results I was getting
  49. [joe-watkins] @shawn.henning You can use a tool like SharpKeys to map command or something. https://joe-watkins.io/accessibility/up-and-running-with-jaws-on-a-mac/
  50. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 17:16
    [jasonday] I authored it years ago to stop pdf generation and print stylesheet maintenance, both of which were becoming problematic
  51. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 17:30
    [shawn.henning] Thank you @joe-watkins and @ghanek it seems my intuition to get PC hardware to learn on was correct. Moving forward I will need to re-evaluate using a VM.
  52. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 18:07
    [seankeegan] @shawn.henning Using VM Fusion - mapped the Insert key to Shift+` on laptop. Has worked for both NVDA and JAWS when conducting basic web browser testing or demos.
  53. [seankeegan] @shawn.henning I avoided the laptop layout commands as I usually only do demos with just keyboard and those are controlled situations. For more extensive testing, I connect full keyboard.
  54. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 18:50
    [shawn.henning] @seankeegan thanks. I may be forced into a laptop config as this is for full time work and not just testing. :)
  55. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 19:12
    [marcysutton] for PC keyboard stuff I would highly recommend getting a Windows keyboard. It's SO much easier!
  56. [marcysutton] if you have a dedicated workstation, that is. I use it with my Mac.
  57. [lauraf] Thanks for that suggestion
  58. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 19:26
    [marcysutton] the only keys I remap are alt + option so they work like a Mac does.
  59. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 20:04

    [alboss] @powrsurg @droidpinkman @eric and anyone else who was discussing OFTPDF (Our Friend* The PDF): organizations like mine, which are subject to public disclosure requests, like PDFs because they can easily create and attach a discrete file to a request in their tracking system. So, there's that angle, too.

    (* friend, fiend; same difference)

  60. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 20:56
    [droidpinkman] Boom https://codepen.io/callmenick/pen/OxpKNZ
  61. [droidpinkman] anyone got accessibility issues with this at all? I'm hoping no. If no what could be done to better it? Also @svinkle maybe a pattern to add to the site if it works for us?
  62. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 21:14
    [joe-watkins] @droidpinkman contrast issue w/label and could use some progressive enhancement for better IE support. @supports or somethin’?
  63. [joe-watkins] + needing transparent border in high contrast ;)
  64. [droidpinkman] oh hello old friend forgot about u ;)
  65. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 23:15

    [violet] reposting from #training for more visibility:

    My workplace in Portland, OR will be running some accessibility workshops this fall and we are looking for an external accessibility consultant to come and give a general presentation before one of the workshops. This would be paid; unsure of the amount. If you know accessibility consultants in the Portland area who might be interested please put me in touch!

  66. [droidpinkman] can u pay me just to visit? always wanted to live in Oregon
  67. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 23:27
    [violet] hmm give me a sec to run that by HR
  68. [violet] lol
  69. [droidpinkman] Ok but maybe tell them Im coming and then not?
  70. [droidpinkman] u work out the logistics. Just get me there
  71. zakim-robot
    @zakim-robot
    Sep 28 23:48
    [marcysutton] @violet I can ask my colleagues that do training, or are you trying to find someone local? You might ask around the Portland accessibility meetup
  72. [marcysutton] err wait...you need a presentation, not training?