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A11y Slackers Gitter Channel Archive 22nd of February 2016

What fresh hell is THIS now? - Patrick Lauke
  1. jkva
    Feb 22 07:46
    @MichielBijl good lord
  2. MichielBijl
    Feb 22 07:51
    It was pretty good. No, it wasn't really. We both didn't really like it, so the best thing to do was just to finish the bottle right then and there.
  3. jkva
    Feb 22 08:18
    Having read both @LjWatson's article on SVG a11y, and FilamentGroup's article on Bulletproof Icon fonts, I'm torn :-/
  4. jkva
    Feb 22 11:45
    Ah, and @StommePoes informed me of https://24ways.org/2014/an-overview-of-svg-sprite-creation-techniques/
  5. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 11:56
    @jkva this may also be of interest https://youtu.be/a-GnfF55sdA
  6. jkva
    Feb 22 11:57
    @stevefaulkner Thanks - I'll give that one a view tonight :+1:
  7. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 11:59
    @jkva @hanshillen lives in a giant clog http://twitpic.com/1auw1x
  8. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 11:59
    being dutch and all
  9. jkva
    Feb 22 11:59
    @stevefaulkner He'll safely float when the dykes break. Smart man.
  10. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 12:01
    he is :+1:
  11. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 12:02
    meanwhile @StommePoes lives in a sneaker
  12. jkva
    Feb 22 12:04
    @stevefaulkner She's not ready for clogs, I think. Full Dutch assimilation takes time. You can't rush these things by throwing the clogs and licorice and bitterballen at people at the same time, it'll just frighten them.
  13. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 12:05
    @jkva are you 2 related? just noticed same surname
  14. sophieschoice
    Feb 22 12:05
    True that, @jkva !
  15. jkva
    Feb 22 12:05
    @stevefaulkner She's my better half =)
  16. jkva
    Feb 22 12:06
    Man, now I want licorice and bitterballen
  17. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 12:06
    :-)
  18. jkva
    Feb 22 12:08
    @stevefaulkner I assumed you knew, I mean, she must talk all the time about her awesome husband :sparkles: @jkva :sparkles: , right? ....right?
  19. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 12:11
    when i have had the occasion to talk with @StommePoes its usually all about her, she has not room to praise others :scream_cat:
  20. jkva
    Feb 22 12:12
    @stevefaulkner Ah, but did you bring chocolate! =)
  21. StommePoes
    Feb 22 12:29
    Hey @stevefaulkner, I'm reading this page http://html5doctor.com/the-section-element/
  22. StommePoes
    Feb 22 12:29
    and there are links to "the spec"
  23. StommePoes
    Feb 22 12:29
    and they died a 404 death
  24. StommePoes
    Feb 22 12:30
    can edit to http://w3c.github.io/html/semantics.html#elementdef-section from http://w3c.github.io/html/sections.html#the-section-element ?
  25. StommePoes
    Feb 22 12:31
    Also, so I discovered we don't necessarily have to do that whole dance crap for SVGs with Windows High Contrast, unless older IE's than 9
  26. StommePoes
    Feb 22 12:31
    as I checked a page using "currentColor" for the fill colour in WHC and indeed, I could still see them and they were the same as the new text colour.
  27. StommePoes
    Feb 22 12:34
    I assume this can also work for stroke colours
  28. StommePoes
    Feb 22 12:40
    Yeah Steve and I had a long, rambling convo at CSUN last year and I think it was all about my awesome white-and-orange hair if I had that at the time. Not sure.
  29. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 13:29
    @StommePoes links fixed - thanks!
  30. jonathantneal
    Feb 22 14:03
    I finished a wcag contrast checker that can be used during the build process: https://github.com/jonathantneal/postcss-wcag-contrast
  31. StommePoes
    Feb 22 14:28
    oh yeah I think Heydon retwotted that one, cool
  32. powrsurg
    Feb 22 14:38
    does anyone remember when <main> became a thing?
  33. MichielBijl
    Feb 22 14:40
    Like two-three years ago?
  34. MichielBijl
    Feb 22 14:42
    @StommePoes regarding WHC and SVG: told you…
  35. powrsurg
    Feb 22 14:43
    also, is there a way to upscale an SVG using generated content? I had updated Heydon's recent tweet on accessible external link icons to work in High Contrast Mode, but the SVG was smaller for some reason
  36. powrsurg
    Feb 22 14:43
    his pen: http://codepen.io/heydon/pen/pgBBdR - my pen: http://codepen.io/anon/pen/eJwYZo
  37. powrsurg
    Feb 22 14:44
    @MichielBijl I thought so. I have a few old client sites that I had been using section for before main became a thing. I went back and added role="main"
  38. MichielBijl
    Feb 22 14:45
    Can't you replace section with main?
  39. powrsurg
    Feb 22 14:45
    mostly because we were still supporting IE8 and I didn't feel like updating the HTML5 shim and then updating the CSS to give main { display: block}
  40. powrsurg
    Feb 22 14:47
    That would be better, but it was a time thing. One day I will go back on it. It's mostly updating old work since it should be done right when it's not budgeted so it's something I'd do on my own free time
  41. powrsurg
    Feb 22 14:47
    Probably talking like 100 clients templates or so
  42. jkva
    Feb 22 15:54
    Has anyone here read Andy Clarke's "Hardboiled Web Design"? Is it any good?
  43. zakim-robot
    Feb 22 15:56
    [dean] If you can overlook the fact that he uses the word “Hardboiled” on every other page
  44. jkva
    Feb 22 15:56
    Hm.
  45. zakim-robot
    Feb 22 15:57
    [dean] I read it a few years back, wasn’t particularly enamoured if I’m honest - but I think I may be in the minority :simple_smile:
  46. garcialo
    Feb 22 15:57
    Some people like heir web design like they like their eggs or detectives. To each their own, I say.
  47. jkva
    Feb 22 15:58
    @dean: Thanks - it's kinda pricey, hence I didn't want to get it straight away
  48. zakim-robot
    Feb 22 15:59
    [dean] Don’t want to speak bad of someone I don’t know, but I got the impression that there was a bit too much ego attached to the way he writes. I’ve got more out of other more welcoming books.
  49. jkva
    Feb 22 15:59
    Ok. My safari account already gives me Smashing Magazine book #5 which seems to cover most
  50. jkva
    Feb 22 16:00
    And I'm still working through Filament Group's Progressive Enhancement book. It's a bit dated but the advice is solid
  51. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 17:01
    @powrsurg first defined around 2012 https://www.w3.org/TR/html-main-element/
  52. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 17:04
    @powrsurg <main>
  53. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 17:05
    Implemented in WebKit Start of 2013
  54. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 17:05
    https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=103172
  55. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 17:07
    Worth a read of the bug as it includes examples of WebStandards wrangling BS that kept me awake at night through the process of standardising and getting main implemented 😜
  56. FionaTG
    Feb 22 17:12
    Wow, that looks like it was a fun discussion
  57. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 17:13
    @FionaTG that was the tail end of it, much aggro elsewhere and prior
  58. powrsurg
    Feb 22 17:16
    okay, only 79 templates that have a role="main" across 530 files ...
  59. powrsurg
    Feb 22 17:19
    though I didn't actually implement section tags for back in 2009, but did have aria stuff in there
  60. MichielBijl
    Feb 22 17:22
    “this will cause the many pages that will misuse it to report less useful results to AT users than if the element wasn't there”
  61. MichielBijl
    Feb 22 17:22
    As is the case with any misused element within the whole of HTML…
  62. FionaTG
    Feb 22 17:24
    That is genuinely "we shouldn't change anything ever, someone might use it wrong"
  63. jnurthen
    Feb 22 17:24
    hey - lets get rid of all elements except for div and then no one will misuse any of them
  64. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 18:17
    Funny thing is I have monitored <main> usage in wild and it gets used correctly about 95% of the time
  65. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 18:20
    Also the whatwg definition lends itself to misuse of the element, fortunately devs use is much more aligned with the original definition in W3c HTML
  66. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 18:22
    I think that is because I defined it based on looking at how Id=main and friends were used in Wild
  67. MichielBijl
    Feb 22 18:23
    We should get t-shirts with “HTML, stay true to the source”
  68. jonathantneal
    Feb 22 18:36
    Just catching up. Is someone trying to kill <main>?
  69. MichielBijl
    Feb 22 18:38
    Don't think so, if someone is, it's at WHATWG
  70. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 18:38
    @jonathantneal no just reliving a bit of history, @powrsurg asked when main appeared and I looked up some d stuff to find answer which lead me to remember the horror 😜
  71. jonathantneal
    Feb 22 18:40
    Whew. Glad it was just me reading into the conversation too much.
  72. jonathantneal
    Feb 22 18:44
    Related, I still enjoy describing the issue of subheading markup. Then I recommend using <small> for now. It’s been a while since I checked in. Is that bad or out-of-date advice?
  73. jonathantneal
    Feb 22 18:51
    I say it depends on each use case, but it will likely be some version of: 
    <h1><small>Lord of the Rings</small> Behind the Scenes Commentary</h1>

    <h1>Lord of the Rings <small>Behind the Scenes Commentary</small></h1>

    <h1>Lord of the Rings</h1> <small>Behind the Scenes Commentary</small>
  74. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 18:56
    @jonathantneal this advice is still current https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/common-idioms.html#sub-head
  75. sophieschoice
    Feb 22 19:47
    If I may ask, how did you all decide to get in the field of accessibility? Have you always been interested in the subject?
  76. zakim-robot
    Feb 22 19:49
    [deborah_kaplan] already an engineer, then became disabled myself, @sophieschoice. And then met so many more people with disabilities, professionally and socially, and realize that as nightmarishly difficult things were for me, at least I was already a computer person.
  77. zakim-robot
    Feb 22 19:49
    [deborah_kaplan] s/realize/realized
  78. zakim-robot
    Feb 22 19:50
    [deborah_kaplan] (Also my sister was disabled and a wheelchair user long before I got any of my own disabilities, so I was already aware of and passionate about physical space accessibility issues)
  79. powrsurg
    Feb 22 19:54
    I just generally believed that you should do right by all of your users regardless of device or situation, and I always want to build a great user experience for someone no matter what. Got more serious about it when I saw @stevefaulkner tweet about the DOJ go after a (much larger) competitor and figured we should clean up our act before we grow.
  80. powrsurg
    Feb 22 19:55
    ... and I'm just now realizing that every woman I've dated has had some type of disability (though with some it's simply glasses) ... which is a disturbing realization ...
  81. jkva
    Feb 22 20:17
    @sophieschoice: married to @StommePoes (a11y specialist for Pearson publishing), so I heard a lot about it. Started following a11y people on twitter. Start to see shitty a11y everywhere. Became a freelancer, now advocating proper web development practices on the projects I handle.
  82. sophieschoice
    Feb 22 20:21
    great to read such different stories, but one goal in common :D
  83. jkva
    Feb 22 20:24
    Plus, I only have 1 good eye. Having to carry my special 2-d glasses to 3-d showings of movies made me think about a11y more.
  84. FionaTG
    Feb 22 20:39
    For me it was sort of an extension of hypochondria/anxiety in a strange way! The thought that if I were to go blind I couldn't code any more, that kind of thing...
  85. jkva
    Feb 22 20:40
    Always good to have a backup :)
  86. MichielBijl
    Feb 22 20:58
    I just wanted stevefaulkner to notice me
  87. zakim-robot
    Feb 22 20:58
    [dean] @sophieschoice: was a UX generalist, and heard that Derek Featherstone was doing a workshop in Leiden, NL (where I lived at the time), went along - came back 100% sure this was the path I eventually wanted to narrow into. Not sure how I will fit into it all, as I don’t really want to go back into code - but I’m now doing UX for a company that builds iOS apps for non verbal users.
  88. MichielBijl
    Feb 22 20:59
    No, I always cared about standards, and good HTML, once I realised standards and HTML are important for a11y; it made me care even more. To the point where I try to contribute where I can.
  89. powrsurg
    Feb 22 21:24
    Is it safe to server a VTT file with gzip compression? I assume so, but thought I'd check first
  90. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 22:02
    @sophieschoice some history http://webstandardsgroup.org/features/steve-faulkner.htm
  91. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 22:03
    my history of how i got into a11y
  92. jkva
    Feb 22 22:03
    @stevefaulkner: Prison sentence reduction conditions?
  93. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 22:03
    ha!
  94. sophieschoice
    Feb 22 22:06
    nice read @stevefaulkner :D
  95. sophieschoice
    Feb 22 22:07
    Is the webstandardsgroup still active? Latest newsletters seems to be from 2014.
  96. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 22:07
    thanks
  97. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 22:13
    there is still a newsletter Russ Weakley puts out, but the last one was October last year http://maxdesign.com.au/category/news/
  98. StommePoes
    Feb 22 22:23
    how I got into it? I don't remember. I'm easily frustrated. I must've seen someone equally frustrated due to combo disability + shit code
  99. StommePoes
    Feb 22 22:23
    But I'm not sure
  100. StommePoes
    Feb 22 22:27
    @SteveFaulkner re JAWS and mouseover events
  101. StommePoes
    Feb 22 22:27
    Recently ran into that drag and drop
  102. StommePoes
    Feb 22 22:28
    where the only reason it worked in Firefox was because of the mouse events
  103. StommePoes
    Feb 22 22:28
    weird
  104. MichielBijl
    Feb 22 22:32
    I just realised 2006 is 10 years ago…
  105. MichielBijl
    Feb 22 22:32
    Damn…
  106. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 22:34
    @StommePoes yeah SRs started detecting mouseover in bygone times because keyboard support was absent often
  107. stevefaulkner
    Feb 22 22:35
    Jaws only used to detect inline event handlers though...
  108. MichielBijl
    Feb 22 23:21
    Cool! GitHub replaces icon font with SVG's! https://twitter.com/marcysutton/status/701903588235214848