Meeting minutes
Review of PR for restructuring FXL techniques.
<Avneesh Singh> w3c/
<Avneesh Singh> w3c/
Gregorio P. provided an overview of PR 2878 and issue 2908.
… This section has generic references to various documents.
… Now we have a package metadata document, so we should place a reference to this package metadata document here.
Avneesh Singh: Charles L. can take an action item to review this section and make an appropriate decision about referencing the correct section of the package metadata document.
<Gregorio Pellegrino> https://
<Avneesh Singh> w3c/
Charles LaPierre These techniques should be in the EPUB accessibility techniques document
Charles L.: Decision: Synchronize names of this heading of EPUB Accessibility and fixed layout techniques, refer to EPUB Accessibility Techniques 1.2, and then decide whether specific guidance is needed for spreads in fixed layout techniques, while remaining technology-independent.
<Avneesh Singh> w3c/
Dale Rogers: why would any xhtml doc not have a title.
… its a required element.
Gregorio Pellegrino: fixed layout each page is and xhtml file and each file has to have a title.
… page 2 is page after title page usually blank or illistration.
… what do we tell the publishers what is the title of page 2 thats blank?
… title of story, what do you put for the 2nd page title.
Dale Rogers: right need guidelines.
Avneesh Singh: Refer to the title section of EPUB Accessibility Techniques 1.2 and determine what specific guidance we want to provide for fixed layout techniques.
<Avneesh Singh> w3c/
Gregorio P.:… We should refer to EPUB Accessibility Techniques 1.1 because it is a stable document.
… Challenges include discussion of reading order.
… We need to determine which document will address reading order techniques.
Avneesh Singh: Do we have relevant WCAG techniques that we can link here?
Gregorio P.: Yes, EPUB Accessibility Techniques point to some WCAG guidance.
AvneeshSingh: So, we should refer to EPUB Accessibility Techniques 1.2 and it already includes links to WCAG guidance.
<Avneesh Singh> w3c/
Gregorio Pellegrino: in fixed layout some tables get exported as images.
… we don't have specific things about tables in EPUB Accessibility techniques 1.1 we don't have tables have to be made as tables in HTML.
Avneesh Singh: is there a WCAG section we can point to?
Gregorio Pellegrino: yes.
Avneesh Singh: We can state: Use proper HTML table markup and include a reference link to WCAG techniques.
<Avneesh Singh> w3c/
Gregorio Pellegrino: sometimes you can't control the reading order and was the order when you add element to the page for authoring tools.
… may give guidance using css for visual order with z index
Avneesh Singh: stacking order problem issue with some production tools. we need to make the decision at the principal level.
… Should we have production tools specific guidance in this document, or should we consider separate document for specific production tools if community really need it?
Gregorio Pellegrino: authoring tools change a lot over time.
… hard to keep up
… fair to ref. to HTML / CSS code to be generated and those tools need to adapt. this has always been our approach.
… for this case we have a section authoring the reading order which discusses CSS / HTML with things with different orders visually / programatically
Dale Rogers: I agree
<Avneesh Singh> proposed: We should have production/authoring tools independent techniques in fixed layout techniques document, if there is a strong demand from community to have production tool specific guidance, then we can consider a separate document.
<Gregorio Pellegrino> +1
<GeorgeK> +1
<Charles LaPierre> +1
<Dale Rogers> +1
<Jonas Lillqvist> +1
<Gautier Chomel> +1
<MiiaK> +1
RESOLUTION: We should have production/authoring tools independent techniques in fixed layout techniques document, if there is a strong demand from community to have production tool specific guidance, then we can consider a separate document.
<Avneesh Singh> w3c/
Avneesh Singh: This section is pointing to old IDPF spec.
Gregorio Pellegrino: region based spec was defined 11years ago.
… especially to fixed layout, zooming in/out and combo with media overlays
… is this an active spec? is it still valid, can we reference it?
Avneesh Singh: its quite risky to reference to the IDPF page and it hasn't migrated to W3C space.
Charles LaPierre: there is a case maybe to moving it over to W3C?
GeorgeK: I agree if we are going to ref it it should be moved over and vetted.
Avneesh Singh: do we really need it, if so we will ask Matt/Ivan to move it.
Avneesh Singh: yes lets ask Matt to review it
Review of extended descriptions explainer:
Gautier Chomel: I addressed all issues
… the document is fine, thorium reader is not possible in an imaging window to put something with styles.
… maybe a missunderstanding what they will display is like footnotes. ext. desc. can not be styled. can not display HTML the RS needs to rebuild the HTML, to have image desc. in separate file.
Avneesh Singh: The main objective of this document is to put forward the case to provide semantic information.
Gautier Chomel: maybe not keep the footnote precedent?
… not possible to implement a specific ux
Gregorio Pellegrino: I think that example charles was in a separate HTML then you bring up an iframe but if the extended description in the same file this gets complicated.
… for foot notes they remove all the css but this might not be possible for extended descriptions since CSS is inter-dependant.
Gregorio Pellegrino: displaying the ex. description in a popup is just one solution but could be other UI solutions.
Avneesh Singh: are we ready to invite APA to review
Gautier Chomel: should I close this issue or keep it open.
… good to let people know this limitation.
Charles L.: Why couldn't there be an extendedDescription CSS class for all extended descriptions? We did some successful experiments for displaying descriptions in pop-ups some years ago.
Gautier Chomel: there may be push back by RS wanting the same CSS for all pages not certain ones.
Avneesh Singh: footnote is just and example and we want to have the roles for extended descriptions in a similar way. we need to add to the issue.
Gautier Chomel: I like keeping the issue open so RS dev. point of view maybe different solutions.
GeorgeK: good to get this explainer in front of people maybe CSUN?
Avneesh Singh: I will invite Janina and Mathew.