Publishing Business Group Telecon — Minutes
Date: 2018-09-25
See also the Agenda and the IRC Log
Attendees
Present: Wolfgang Schindler, Avneesh Singh, Dave Cramer, Luc Audrain, Bill Kasdorf, Ivan Herman, George Kerscher, Karen Myers, Liisa McCloy-Kelley, Julie Blair, Murata Makoto, Julian Calderazi, Dmitry Markushevich, Leslie Hulse
Regrets: Rachel Comerford, Jens, Rick Johnson, Ric Wright, Brian O’Leary, Garth Conboy, Jens Klingelhöfer, Tzviya Siegman, Laurent Le Meur
Guests:
Chair: Liisa McCloy-Kelley, Luc Audrain
Scribe(s): Dave Cramer
Content:
1. EPUB 3.2 status
Luc Audrain: let’s start
… news on EPUB 3 Road Map
Dave Cramer:: almost done
… formal approval of CG next meeting
… final CG note to be published
… final CG meeting possibly this Thursday
… then will ask for approval from BG
Bill Kasdorf: the discussion of the spec was in the singular
… will it become a single doc?
Dave Cramer: no
Murata Makoto: I am wondering if w3c can provide testimonials
Murata Makoto: Sorry. My microphone is not working.
Ivan Herman: to think of what Makoto is talking about…
… when RECs are published, if we had a press release around it, we would collect testimonials from the members saying how happy they are that it was published
… the question is, what kind of communication will we do around 3.2?
… we will have to discuss with Ralph and Coralie
… I don’t think we will do press releases these days
… but we need some blogging, and we can use the home page of publishing@w3c
… for testimonials
… we have some now from the merger
… so we could do something similar with 3.2 on the p@w3c home page
Murata Makoto: Yes, let’s make some noise.
Murata Makoto: I do not want be ignored.
Luc Audrain: the communication around 3.2 is important
… we need to think about it
… we are pushing a lot about epubcheck fundraising
… one issue is that it will validate epub 3.2
… so we need to keep the momentum on epub 3.2
Ivan Herman: it may be worth getting together on a separate telco with ralph, ivan, coralie, and the chairs to talk about communication
Liisa McCloy-Kelley: +1 to ivan’s telco
Luc Audrain: I was not thinking only of w3c, but of the external task force, etc
Ivan Herman: the more the merrier
2. epubcheck fundraising
Luc Audrain: about epubcheck fundraising
… the w3c page has been launched
… do we know already if funds have been collected?
Bill Kasdorf: or at least pledged?
Luc Audrain: one way we can push is by invoice
… some companies may ask for an invoice
George Kerscher: everything is up, we have had some commitments, and the early committers have processed their donations. No money have been received yet. It’s in process.
Karen Myers: I did have a conversation with a company that was interested in contributing
… I wanted clarification on the landing page being public
… and they asked about benefits for different levels of contribution
Luc Audrain: the visibility can be chosen during the pledge process. It can anonymous or visible with logo.
… I don’t know if size of logo is proportional of amount of donation
Liisa McCloy-Kelley: size of logo related to amount is what it says on the page
Karen Myers: where will the logo appear?
Luc Audrain: it will appear on epubcheck web page
Luc Audrain: we talked about that
Karen Myers: if someone could follow up, that would be great
Ivan Herman: it’s not clear to me, as I was on holiday
… has there been some sort of more public announcement?
… all I did was set up a website which links to the payment page
… has there been a blog or announcement?
… the other thing is, on w3c page, there is no preparation for any logo
… I don’t know where these logos would appear
… and there is no reference on the home page at publishing @ w3c
… maybe Tzviya and Rachel know about this
Liisa McCloy-Kelley: there was announcement to PWG and CG and not yet a blog or larger announcement
Luc Audrain: we have said in the page, that contributors can be acknowledged on the epubcheck home page
… this is said in the w3c fundraising web page
… so there is an explicit mention of an epubcheck home page
… the size of the logo depends on the level of the contribution
Ivan Herman: what is the URL?
Liisa McCloy-Kelley: http://validator.idpf.org
Ivan Herman: that has the idpf logo and a fairly rudimental content, geared as users of the checkers mainly
Luc Audrain: there’s an epubcheck page on github
Luc Audrain: https://github.com/IDPF/epubcheck/wiki/WorkPlan
Bill Kasdorf: the announcement went out to a number of orgs via the external task force
… including SSP and NISO
… I posted an announcement to the SSP industry events link
… and I heard from Todd at NISO, who will put that in their next newsletter
… but he commented that it doesn’t look like it has much support from publishers
… I told him it just hadn’t shown up yet
… so maintaining that fundraising web page is important
… his conclusion was publishers weren’t supporting this
Liisa McCloy-Kelley: that’s a great point, Bill
… it’s just a chicken and egg problem
… Luc made an important point about 3.2
… we should communicate that 3.2 is about to be released, and that the epubcheck effort is to ensure validation of 3.2, so adoption can be quick and painless
Luc Audrain: +1 about EPUB 3.2 announcement
Ivan Herman: what’s the action now?
Luc Audrain: we have to figure out if we stay with epubcheck web page as github
… we can figure that out with Tzviya and Rachel
… and there is a process of adding contributors inside the webpage
Ivan Herman: that’s the question to me
… what I put up is the call to contributions. It’s not the epubcheck home page
… I’m afraid of losing the baby :)
Liisa McCloy-Kelley: ivan, we need to have a conversation with the dev team about where the landing is
… it needs its own landing page, and needs to move out of idpf world
Avneesh Singh: the marketing page for fundraising
… this is the highest priority
… in the dev plan we’ve proposed a website for the user, with documentation and downloads
… maybe the marketing page can be on the w3c side
… we should get rid of old IPDF page
… we should have marketing page on w3c
… the rest of this is in the proposal
Ivan Herman: who is responsible for all that?
Avneesh Singh: these are two things. the dev team is responsible for the user-facing page (with docs)
… the marketing piece falls on the management of epubcheck, which means Tzviya, etc
Luc Audrain: the question… we should be able to add contributors to the marketing page at the end
… I can do that on a weekly or fortnight basis
… how can we be made aware of contributors? Can we get something from George?
George Kerscher: I’ve asked Richard to provide an update to the SC on a regular basis, and he said he would be doing that
… how often do we want an update? Weekly?
… Weekly for the first month, and then monthly?
… tell us what you want
Luc Audrain: weekly to start with
Karen Myers: +1 weekly updates for now
George Kerscher: I’ll send an email to Richard after this call
Bill Kasdorf: we should clarify with richard… I think any time we have a commitment from a publisher, we shouldn’t wait until we have the money to acknowledge
Luc Audrain: more comments?
… development is not started
Avneesh Singh: what we conveyed to Tzviya is that as soon as you have confidence that you have sufficient pledges in one month’s time
Luc Audrain: we need to be informed by Richard, then we share this in the PBGSC, then the roadmap task force will inform you about the commitments
Luc Audrain: more comments?
… if you have issues and further needs for epubcheck, please raise them in epubcheck’s github issues
2.1. image resolution check & epubcheck
Luc Audrain: there was discussion about image resolution check in epubcheck
Liisa McCloy-Kelley: I raised this last week with a couple of people
… image quality and resolution is a big topic for a lot of publishers
… ebook reading systems are evaluating in different ways
… Amazon was asking if epubcheck could warn people about it
… should this be in a future version of epubcheck?
… Tzviya pointed out that we might not be talking about a warning, it’s more informational
… a file wouldn’t fail, but would tell a content producer that your image is too small or too low-res to work in a reading system
… is that interesting to people?
Dave Cramer: this would be an expansion of the role of epubcheck
Luc Audrain: note that Amazon provides the kindlegen tool which performs this role for Amazon
… we use kindlegen not to produce files, but as a checker tool
… we use epubcheck first to check conformance to the spec, then we put it through kindlegen to see if it meets amazon’s requirements in their closed system
… I think we should keep the dedication of the tools to the formats they are supposed to validate
Liisa McCloy-Kelley: for the US market, amazon does not use kindlegen in the way they did in the past
… they provide kindle previewer, with qc functions
… I raised this issue because it came from them as a suggestion
… and I want to pull them closer to the epub world, and make sure we can still send them epub files
Bill Kasdorf: I’m of two minds
… as we try to get epub embedded in more sectors like journals, etc. these requirements will be quite varied
… because EPUB was originally used by retailers, we made it easy for them to use epubcheck
… there’s a difference between a model and a spec
… maybe we should encourage each retailer to provide such info
… and we should keep epubcheck pristine
George Kerscher: A couple things
… there’s best practices
… what would we recommend?
… we should look at that
… we’re planning a call with Brian from BISG on the future of epubtest.org
… we want to harmonize best practices with a tool
Dave Cramer: (audio gaps)
Dave Cramer: there used to be epubpreflight to check non-spec issues
Avneesh Singh: the first priority of epubcheck is to support 3.2
… and we have to deal with the fragmented test suite
… only then could we start looking at such things. That might not be for a year.
… expanding the role of epubcheck should be a higher-level conversation
Luc Audrain: thanks for reminding us of priorities
… it could be an issue in the github
3. TPAC planning
Luc Audrain: we still have many more agenda items. what are the priorities?
… should we start to think about TPAC planning?
… there is a BG session joint with the WG
Luc Audrain: dauwhe: provide business perspective to the WG
Luc Audrain: could it be informal?
… should we open a document to suggest ideas?
Ivan Herman: there is no rule for that, but when we discussed it with chairs, we didn’t expect a detailed document
… it’s a general thing that can extend beyond the joint meeting
… the WG does need more feedback on business
… the active part of the WG is mostly technically oriented
… the WG does need guidelines and feedback, which we haven’t really received yet
… but perhaps we need to talk about how the groups relate in the future
… I don’t think a detailed doc from the BG is necessary
Luc Audrain: the general idea is what Dave said–provide business perspective to the WG
… during the F2F there will be a session, a slot in time, where people in the BG who are not in the WG would join?
Ivan Herman: any members of the BG are welcome to join as observers
… please come :)
… on the agenda, we do have a specific slot, perhaps Tuesday afternoon, where these issues should be discussed
Luc Audrain: we will have to play a dual role as a member of the BG and WG
… Will many people here be at TPAC?
Liisa McCloy-Kelley: liisamk will be in Lyon
Dave Cramer: +1 to Lyon
Bill Kasdorf: I will not be at TPAC
Luc Audrain: +1
Ivan Herman: +1 i
George Kerscher: George will be there
Wolfgang Schindler: I will not be able to attend - unfortunately
Avneesh Singh: +1 Lyon
Julian Calderazi: -1 Lyon
Wolfgang Schindler: -1 Lyon
Julie Blair: -1 Lyon
Luc Audrain: we have five minutes left
Bill Kasdorf: -1 Lyon
4. epub preservation
Liisa McCloy-Kelley: does anyone have thoughts on EPUB preservation
Murata Makoto: I believe the ballot has been closed, and Japan voted no, but I don’t know the result of the ballot
… it will take a bit of time, but results should be announced in a couple of weeks
… I would note that the Japanese proposal for a11y was well-received at the meeting in Seattle
… and so we will prepare a draft of EPUB a11y as soon as possible
Liisa McCloy-Kelley: the ballot for PDTS ISO/IEC 22424-1 EPUB Preservation - Part 1 doesn’t close until Thursday 27 September 2018 at 11:59 EDT
George Kerscher: I submitted to NISO a vote of no, with similar comments about referencing EPUB 3.1, and that it should be rewritten for 3.2. And it never mentioned a11y.
… but I don’t know how NISO ended up voting.
5. Tokyo workshop
Luc Audrain: re: tokyo workshop. We are preparing a report.
… the web page of the schedule has links to the presentations
… and we are editing the minutes
… it will be available soon
… it was a fruitful and interesting workshop, with 70 people registered
… but only 55 attended?
Ivan Herman: almost seventy were there, and some last-minute people. 68 or 70.
… we can have an item on a future agenda.
… and we are out of time.
Ivan Herman: -> schedule of the workshop with links: https://www.w3.org/2018/publayout-workshop/schedule.html
Murata Makoto: I think that the WS was a tremendous success.
Ivan Herman: thanks everyone!
Murata Makoto: Thanks, Ivan
Ivan Herman: we have our next call in a fortnight. I’ll be at Frankfurt, so will not be able to chair.
… . thanks everyone!