Publishing Business Group Telco — Minutes

Date: 2019-01-15

Attendees

Present: Karen Myers, Luc Audrain, Wolfgang Schindler, Wendy Reid, Jeff Jaffe, Dan Sanicola, Dave Cramer, Liisa McCloy-Kelley, Ivan Herman, Garth Conboy, Laurent Le Meur, Avneesh Singh, Tzviya Siegman, Bill Kasdorf, Ric Wright, Daihei Shiohama, Mateus Teixeira, Rachel Comerford, Julian Calderazi

Regrets: Cristina Mussinelli, Jens Klingelhöfer, Jun-ichi Yoshii

Guests:

Chair: Luc Audrain, Liisa McCloy-Kelley

Scribe(s): Jeff Jaffe, Dave Cramer

1. PBG Chair change

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: We have received Rick Johnson’s resignation as co-chair of BG
… stepping away from W3C and membership
… opening up candidacy for 3rd co-chair

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Announcement was made in SC
… some are aware
… Daihei Shiohama is a candidate
… supported by me and Luc

Daihei Shiohama: I’m honored to be here and (electronically) see you
… I accept candidacy
… I want to work with Liisa and Luc
… make progress in BG and with WGs
… sent intro email yesterday
… Japanese, live in San Diego, travel a lot to Japan
… work with APL
… established by Keio and 4 major Japanese publishers
… Top execs of APL (e.g. Murai-sensei) and CEOs (e.g. Kodansha) agree with my candidacy
… so I officially represent Japanese publishing industry
… would like to work with other Asian publishers
… and work with US and Europe
… 1 global publishing market
… Japan successful with EPUB 3
… I want to make publishing in W3C work better and contribute

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Thank you, Daihei.
… will leave this open for a week
… see if other candidates
… if so - move to a vote

Jeff Jaffe: I’m inspired by Daihei’s remarks about making a global publishing community

Luc Audrain: Do we need a specific mail about the process
… explain resolution - “if no other candidate then Daihei is the 3rd co-chair”

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Agree that we send an email this week.
… I will draft it.

Luc Audrain: Perfect.

2. EPUBcheck development and fundraising

Luc Audrain: Development on schedule
… EPUBcheck 4.2 available for test
… alpha for checking EPUB 3.2
… some issues
… but running well and on time.

Ivan Herman: -> alpha release announcement: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2019Jan/0005.html

Luc Audrain: Fundraising: a bit more than half the goal in 2018
… should renew communications on fundraising
… allow Daisy to continue for next phases
… All people in PBG should help
… so renew call for fundraising for epubcheck

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: List of contacts?

Rachel Comerford, Luc Audrain -> EPUBCheck fundraising, list of companies to contact

3. from PWG on WP for audiobooks

Wendy Reid: Short update
… audiobooks is waiting on decision on packaging
… leaning towards OCF light
… Dave Singer says we should look at HEIF (High Efficiency Image Format)
… ISO based
… could be used for audiofiles
… success criteria this week
… for audio + WP in general
… then first draft of audio spec
… looking for co-editor
… looking for feedback

Luc Audrain: Audiolib is a big company for audiobooks
… 60% of market
… we will prepare feedback

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Time frame or wish for audio?

Wendy Reid: Wish is 2019
… first draft by summer
… more solid by end of year

Tzviya Siegman: +1 to Wendy
… looking at putting together goals and timelines

IH: Wendy, we need to discuss further
… Earlier draft ASAP is good
… Taking testing into account, we should have a first draft very, very soon

Wendy Reid: even sooner if possible

Garth Conboy: Fits with our F2F in Boston

Dave: Slight concerns
… work on audio should not box ourselves into corner wrt other requirements
… should have explainer
… TAG review

4. EPUB 3.2 in REC track

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Last year discussions
… as a community we do not have consensus
… whether REC track; when REC track; testing; changes in spec
… WG concerns that waiting for testing takes it out of scope
… In Friday SC call, proposed that CG work on testing for some period of time
… Time-box it
… WG does not work on 3.2 REC track at this point.
… discuss again at TPAC 2019
… comments?

Garth Conboy: +1

Dave Cramer: I am now opposed to putting 3.2 on REC track
… eventually yes, but not now
… need roadmap
… EPUB an aspect of WP
… don’t see as much value

Bill Kasdorf: +1 to dauwhe

Dave Cramer: constraints; pressure not to change anything

Luc Audrain: +1

Dave Cramer: but testing is important

Wolfgang Schindler: +1 to dauwhe

Dave Cramer: spec needs to be clearer and better

Luc Audrain: +1 to Dave
… resolutions says testing should be time boxed
… CG could work on it.
… gather known bugs
… checker very soon

Avneesh Singh: +1 to SC recommendation

Luc Audrain: communications around epub2
… March/April announce that EPUB 3.2 is final
… checker is ready
… how do you see time frame for testing?
… end in spring; extended to year-end.

Daihei Shiohama: +1 to Luc

Dave: Testing on longer time line
… past final CG report

Luc Audrain: Should include this in resolution

Garth Conboy: +1 to Luc
… agree with Dave
… epub3.2 is already tighter than preceding versions
… when epubcheck is ready for 3.2 we should figure out how to give 3.2 report formality
… “this is epub now”

Luc Audrain: +1

Garth Conboy: in March

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: We should give time for testing
… but we should know our status before TPAC
… propose we complete testing by August

Dave Cramer: I am not focused on stopping testing
… we don’t finish
… since we don’t have end goal
… learning about spec, implementations, clarify in spec
… concede that this is ambiguous
… no other way

Tzviya Siegman: We need to define goals of testing
… and what we do with results
… now only Dave is doing the work
… if it leads to changes will this go into 3.3.
… or just WP?
… changes to epubcheck

Luc Audrain: I would be concerned if we continued to move
… should include bug reporting
… features not well implemented
… reassure community
… encouraged that CG is considering issues
… considering implementations

Garth Conboy: Testing will continue after 3.2 is done
… lead to bugs
… have a 3.2.1 (bug fixes)
… 3.3 or 3.5 with substantive work is open for debate
… or does it go to WG
… longer term discussion
… but 3.2.1 in 2019 is ok

Bill Kasdorf: Goal of testing will advise us on outcomes
… clarification of spec
… or need for 3.2.1
… or need for 3.3.
… decide that when we see results of testing.
… as testing continues, BG checks in and provides view of market needs

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: + 1 to Garth and Bill

Bill Kasdorf: Yes, we should have goals, but articulated as per the above

Luc Audrain: CG + PBG share this goal

Wendy Reid: I am a reading system and a QA professional
… doesn’t make sense to publish, then test, then publish a 3.2.1
… this is not ad hoc - people will follow this
… we are undermining ourselves
… understand March goal
… if we can get testing done we get something more reliable
… need more resources
… no one wants changing after the fact

Garth Conboy: We’ve had confusion with 3.1 and 3.0.1
… work on 3.2 and its testing have tightened it
… so we have time pressure to resolve incompatibilities
… stick to March
… doing minor fixes
… 3.2 ASAP
… not negative to do a 3.2.1
… need substantive result of merger with W3C

Luc Audrain: +1 to Garth

Dave Cramer: EPUB3 is pretty mature
… widely implemented and widely used
… testing is uncovering bugs in reading systems
… (does not affect spec)
… I’ve been finding small ambiguities in extreme corner cases
… will not change existing reading system or content
… [vertical bar example]
… these will accumulate over time
… not concerned about that
… EPUB relatively stable

Avneesh Singh: 1. Garth and Dave have explained good
… we need to be on track
… compatibility with 3.0.1
… near zero changes.
… 2. Governance
… SC recommendation
… needs an email to BG
… governance in hands of BG.
… 72 hours to object.

Ivan Herman: +1 to Avneesh

Luc Audrain: Do we push the resolution as is
… or revise with (a) testing time frame and (b) what to do with results of testing
… do we stick with TPAC as the date?
… REC track synchronized with chartering WG in 2020?
… Comments on dates in resolution?

Ivan Herman: Currently expires in June

Luc Audrain: Charter has timeline which includes EPUB4
… we could simply say resolution as is
… BG discussing REC track at TPAC
… agree?

Julian Calderazi: +1

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: +1

Ivan Herman: +1

Avneesh Singh: revisit EPUB 3.2 rec track can be written as Q4 of 2019

Garth Conboy: +1

**Proposed resolution: The CG will work on testing for . The WG will not work on EPUB 3.2. Test results will inform work on potential revisions of EPUB and possibly on WP. The BG will discuss REC track again at TPAC.** *(Luc Audrain)*

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: What do we as a BG want to accomplish this year?

Daihei Shiohama: +1

Luc Audrain: +1

5. PBG Priorities for 2019

Jeff Jaffe: I look at today’s agenda
… to the extent that it’s representative
… a lot of the agenda is focused on grinding through the work that has to get done
… but not putting a lot of focus on popularizing EPUB and the industry
… driving more adoption
… making the value proposition to people
… I spoke to several people
… the reason they don’t want to continue is that they are not seeing enough business focus in the BG
… and that’s why they were IDPF members
… they just see us enmeshed in technical issues
… I would propose that some of the priorities would be about focusing on that business content

Tzviya Siegman: +1 to Jeff
… in WG we often have questions about business needs
… e.g. audio books
… testing and their effects need BG focus
… e.g. if a bug has ramifications on business, we need to hear it.

Luc Audrain: +1 to Tzviya and Jeff
… time to reconsider how we work
… how we think about business
… Daihei + LMK + myself cover the geos
… consider business questions
… could better prepare the calls
… fewer calls
… the Chairs (+maybe Ivan) should think about business subjects
… so we restructure with focus on business

Ivan Herman: Go beyond what Tzviya said
… audiobooks has core (manifest)
… specific part of publishing
… audiobooks is first good “profile”
… have superficially discussed other profiles
… visual narratives, manga, …
… consider educational, music
… but need business background
… need feedback from BG
… sorry to be long

6. NY meeting

Tzviya Siegman: A week from tomorrow is a publishing + AB meeting
… should have received invitation
… please RSVP
… to me
… look forward to seeing you

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Thanks

Luc Audrain: Thanks

Daihei Shiohama: Thanks