Publishing Business Group Meeting—Asia time — Minutes

Date: 2019-02-19

See also the Agenda and the IRC Log

Attendees

Present: Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平), Junko Kamata, Karen Myers, Liisa McCloy-Kelley, Murata Makoto

Regrets: Jun-ichi Yoshii, Yu-Wei Chang (Yanni)

Guests:

Chair: Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平)

Scribe(s): Liisa McCloy-Kelley, Karen Myers

Content:

Murata Makoto: Daihei-san is introducing himself as a co-chair.

Dahei: introductions and agenda

1. Meeting Organisation

Dahei: The previous meeting is basically for Europe and US.
… The minutes are available.
… Today’s agenda is the same as in the previous meeting.
… But for Asian people.

Murata Makoto: are decisions taken on each of the two calls?

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): yes, essentially decisions can be taken twice

Murata Makoto: +1

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: I would like to add that we should come up with a process to make decisions via email

Leslie Hulse: +1

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: and we can discuss things at these meetings

Junko Kamata: +1

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): let’s go that way

1.1. Meeting times going forward

Murata Makoto: Every decision will be done by e-mail rather than in meetings. In meetings, we discuss but will not make decisions.

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): at the 12 Feb meeting it was discussed to have European and US friendly meeting and one Asian friendly meeting
… for European and for Japan/Asia, only once in the month is not frequent enough
… so there was talk that there should be four meetings in a month
… then the co-chairs discussed and we re-proposed how it goes
… once for US/Europe friendly time zone, and the other one in two weeks for US and Japan/Asia friendly time zone
… so twice in a month
… and see how it goes and then come back and review it

Murata Makoto: Good to me.

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): we would like to confirm if that is ok with everybody
… any queues or questions?

Junko Kamata: +1

Murata Makoto: Let’ see what happens.

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): seems like everyone is ok
… then I will move on to the next topic

2. ISO Work

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): this is something Murata-san talked about it
… he was clearly saying
… talked about EPUB3.1
… new work item
… LCP for EPUB
… Milano meeting of ISO
… end of March
… and end of May in Milano
… and we can talk about ISO work in September
… pre-TPAC there will be an ISO conference in Fukuoka
… we can use these opportunities to reflect the situation
… Liisa would you like to fill me in?

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: I think you covered it

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): any questions?
… ok

3. Event calendar for publishing events

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): Liisa may touch upon this
… there was a meeting held in NYC
… with members of PubWG, PubG and the Advisory Board (AB)
… there was some positive feedback and suggested we could have more regional meetings
… Proposal made to have an event calendar of publishing events
… people will include who will attend
… and by seeing that calendar, people can communicate and help to organize a regional meeting
… thanks to Liisa, she will create this calendar

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: yes
… we will keep all the events, conferences that people brought up; anything that touches on the work we do
… to coordinate more
… and to look at budgeting for next year

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): does anyone have any questions in this regard?
… Move along

4. EPUB3.2 Next Steps

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): getting support and buy-in
… EPUB3.2 to rec track was considered
… schedule in March to make EPUB3 in public
… based on final CG report
… around the same time
… so the global industry can immediately can adopt EPUB3.2
… that was the discussion
… Liisa, anything you want to offer?

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: two steps
… first, we have the new spec out and we have the validation out and those happen together
… then the BG would do more work to get more public buy-in
… to support how to announce it, publicize it
… how we make sure that everyone is moving toward adoption
… and that would follow some time in April

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): any questions?
… or thoughts?

Murata Makoto: W3C solicits testimonials from W3C members
… I know that 3.2 is not a Recommendation, but is it possible to accept testimonials to encourage adoption of 3.2

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): I don’t think we have discussed this

Action #1: Karen Myers to discuss possibility of testimonial page for EPUB3.2 adoption

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): any other comments?

5. Category of Reports and Discussions; update on AB meeting, update on local meet-ups

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): Liisa, can you please fill us in

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: The AB meeting we [Publishing BG/WG] had in New York
… was an interesting meet-up of the AB that was here [NY] for their F2F meeting
… they met with a small group of publishers and the chairs of several of our publishing committees
… CG, BG, WG
… we had presentations on history, state of EPUB; how some of us got into this work
… progress of groups
… AB gave presentations on Packaging and file formats
… and there was open dialogue
… a really great moment of people to ask questions
… AB asked a lot of questions of the publishers; they asked us about DRM and why it’s touchy
… a really good open discussion, good energy
… what the broader community can do, how we can work together
… There was a presentation from AB about the process of making standards
… understanding that standards take a long time to build
… and publishing community tends to build standards after we identify a problem
… there was good energy in a small group
… A lot of us walked away with perspective that a lot could be done and discussed in these small group formats
… and we thought we could talk with Audio publishers and retailers who are not otherwise involved
… in this work and to understand it is happening and have information about it
… and Daihei, discussion around TPAC for Japanese publishers

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): I explained that APL and W3C Keio is going to organize a publishing summit kind of meeting around the TPAC in Fukuoka in September
… We still need to figure out dates
… this was discussed at APL
… and with W3C Keio
… they have already agreed to take a lead on this
… the question about the timing is
… one thing is during the TPAC people are claiming there are other meetings they need to attend
… at the San Francisco summit, some people could not attend the other WG meetings
… so one idea is not to have the Summit kind, perhaps before or after Fukuoka
… before TPAC there is an ISO meeting also in Fukuoka also the week before TPAC
… if people are amenable, perhaps we organize a one-day event on Sunday prior to the TPAC in Fukuoka
… that is one thing discussed
… and maybe holding it during TPAC in Fukuoka

Murata Makoto: The ISO meeting is expected to end on the 13th
… on the 14-15th
… of September, W3C people would have nothing to do
… it might be good idea to have meeting on 14-15
… dates are 9th to 15th
… basically EPUB related meetings would be on 12th and 13th
… so that is why the 14th and 15th would be a great opportunity for the AB type meeting

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): one idea is to do it on the 15th
… so 14th 15th we could bring back to other people
… mainly APL and W3C Keio to discuss further and then come back to the Publishing BG for further discussion

Murata Makoto: It might be impossible to use other commercial meetings rooms

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): Is ISO meeting going to be held at @

Murata Makoto: at Kyushu university

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): any other questions about TPAC in Fukuoka and possibility to hold a Publishing meeting
… my understanding is prior to this TPAC Fukuoka opportunity there is going to be a digital publishing conference in June in Paris
… that is where people could get together to have another regional meeting
… that is another opportunity I can suggest as well
… getting back to calendar

Murata Makoto: Any URL for the EDRLab event?

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): purpose is to share these kinds of meeting opportunities face to face
… and publishing industry related
… please positively take participate in adding information to the calendar and to coordinate meetings wherever possible

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: https://www.edrlab.org/events/dpub-summit-2019/

Karen Myers: @: Do we have a URL for the EDRLab event?

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: just put it in

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): I think some people from APL are planning to attend this
… Yoshii-san; and possibly Florian; I will, too
… other questions or information

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: are there other topics to be discussed in smaller groups
… things that are particular to types of publishing or parts of the world

6. Popped Up Content

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): next topic on Popped up content
… this is good item to discuss
… Liisa, could you fill in about Popped Up Content issue?

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Popped Up Content, and the business requirements around it
… is something we can address without addressing the underlying technology from a reading systems perspective
… what kind of content needs to be enlarged, what kind of control do you as a publisher want to tell the reading systems
… Sometimes footnotes are popped up
… that is not done in a way that publishers have control
… you may put in an EPUB type
… but reading systems may put a UI around it
… we would like publishers to have more control; to know where it starts and stops
… have it gracefully appear and be degraded
… not all reading systems support imaging and formatting inside of popups
… a lot of books like children’s picture books use pop-ups
… from bus perspective, you want control of sizing of text, that box
… put a background in it so it is readable
… even when laid over some art
… then extrapolate over the visual narratives
… for visual novels, manga, or other places to enlarge something
… if we could talk about what kinds of control we want
… then we could one, inform the reading systems
… and two, see if we can apply technology
… so that the stuff pops up when you want it to
… sometimes there are circular links….creates a bad reading experience

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): thank you Liisa

Murata Makoto: this is a very interesting opportunity
… first, is this going to be an activity in PubBG or WG?
… do we do requirements first, or do we investigate solutions at the same time?

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): anybody?

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: I think in the BG, what we want to is to talk about the requirements and expectations and then document them
… and with WG we talk about experiences in the marketplace and see if there is tech we have access to or we can build and go from there

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): so first stage is requirements in the PubBG

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: yes, the business needs around this

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): the PubBG we would want to confirm and quantify the business needs and then relate to the other working group to have this discussion on the technology side of it
… anybody wants to express their thoughts, take advantage of me being in the Japanese friendly time
… Anybody wants to say something in Japanese?
… I will try to then translate into English?
… Feel free to that here now
… Ok, next item is Popped Up Content
… Everybody thinks it’s a good idea to explore in the PubBG

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: I think the next step to think about
… think about whether the things you want to have pop up are not working well; whether you have control and if it’s satisfying your needs and your authors’
… order, speed, explore where the commonalities are
… enough resolution, things popping beyond the border of the pages; those kinds of issues

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): any thoughts?
… shall we bring what Liisa explained to the next PubBG meeting to confirm
… from POV from US, Europe and other attendance to explore what is working for pop up content and what is missing
… shall we?

Murata Makoto: I thought we would make a decision by email. So you might want to make an email proposal for the next meeting
… and then we take a decision by email

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: yes

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): shall we come up with a proposal in email to be shared among the other PubBG members?

Murata Makoto: that would be great

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: that would be good

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): Great!
… any other thoughts on this issue or discussion?
… or overall questions and comment time?

Murata Makoto: My brain works much better now than at midnight

Junko Kamata: +1

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: that’s great

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): so this Asia friendly time works
… On top of Japan we should extend invitation to Korea, China and elsewhere to participate
… For India, this is not a friendly time
… they said they will attend the European friendly time
… That is @
… Yesterday I extended my invitation to the Japanese publishing people, including organizations such as APL, EDPJA, others
… and with Yoshii-san’s help, I reached out to the publishing companies individually
… and those who have become W3C members
… all the other Japanese related people
… having some seat for PubBG
… know about this meeting happening
… and the Asia/Japan friendly time
… I will make sure to extend this kind of solicitation to people in Japan, and next time for the other Asian countries

Murata Makoto: Taiwan

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): any other comments or questions?
… ok, Liisa, how are we doing as first-time chair?

Karen Myers: +1

Murata Makoto: +1

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Doing great

7. Next Steps and Action Items

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): I would like to talk about last item
… next steps and action items
… my understanding is that for important items discussed
… for each PubBG meeting
… regardless of European or Japan/Asia friendly time
… we will share
… the item and information to be decided in PubBG by email
… that is the case with the Pop Up discussion
… Number two
… Murata-san’s comment
… EPUB3.2
… announcement
… W3C’s testimonials for EPUB3.2
… that is something Karen will discuss and come back to us
… .as for regional events
… TPAC Fukuoka, Makoto-san presented
… potential publishing meeting to be held Saturday/Sunday 14-15 Sept connected to the ISO meeting in the prior week and before TPAC

Action #2: Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平) to bring Japan Publishing event meeting to APL for further discussion

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): lastly, the Pop Up content, we will come up with a separate email to propose the Pop Up content issue

Murata Makoto: Great!

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): anything I missed

Junko Kamata: Great!

Action #3: PubBG Co-Chairs to draft email on Pop Up Content

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): no other queues
… we still have ten minutes
… anybody wants to say anything, please do

Karen Myers: @: do we know name of anonymous callers?

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): when we issue minutes, they will be listed

Murata Makoto: be good if they would state their names now
… or email us

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): also, you could email us as well
… on the Publishing BG email list
… I think we are good to go
… Thank you everybody for this opportunity
… We are looking forward to the next call

Karen Myers: [adjourned]

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): thank you

8. Action Items