Publishing Business Group Telco - East Asia time — Minutes

Date: 2019-04-02

See also the Agenda and the IRC Log

Attendees

Present: Wendy Reid, Karen Myers, Shinya Takami, Jun-ichi Yoshii, Liisa McCloy-Kelley, Ozawa Shogakukan, Murata Makoto

Regrets:

Guests:

Chair: Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平), Liisa McCloy-Kelley

Scribe(s): Karen Myers

Content:

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Let’s get started with updates
… We welcome anyone who is new to the call
… If you are new, please feel free to introduce yourself

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): I see on irc
… Ozawa-san, for first time I think on irc
… are you on the Go-to-Meeting?
… are you muted?

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): so the new members, anyone from Japan

Ozawa Shogakukan: My name is Ozawa Shogakukan Inc japan

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): you can speak in Japanese and I can translate
… just say hello and who you are

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): seems like nobody else

Murata Makoto: I just posted a report; can you add to the agenda

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): under future discussion or start talking about it? We could do that

Karen Myers: Liisa; let’s talk about it after the fund raising

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): I will call you Makoto-san after the fund raising and next steps reminder
… Events calendar
… on the agenda you can see the link to the Google calendar to see any publishing related events

1. Events calendar

Ozawa Shogakukan: As it is the first time, please concentrate on browsing.

Shinya Takami: Hi Ozawa-san, please join the call from https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/Meetings/gotomeetings

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): Liisa made this, thank you, and feel free to include any events
… anyone sees it, and if you are attending, perhaps you can arrange for coordinating meetings if you post your schedule

2. Digital Publishing Summit in Paris, June 2019

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Laurent encourages everyone to attend

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: https://www.edrlab.org/events/dpub-summit-2019/

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: W3C members/participants benefit from early bird rates
… he says that the program is still under construction
… Luc Audrain will introduce the benefits of EPUB3
… and a lot of discussions on Accessibility
… Ori Idan will talk about Internationalization
… and a talk about the achievements of the Pub WG
… and you, Daihei and @ will give manga updates
… New EU directives impacting publishing
… voice access to audio and much more
… also looking for sponsors
… and weather in Paris in June will be sunny :)

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): any questions or comments
… will Ori Idan cover i18n issues restricted to Israel, or will he cover Asian topics

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: that is a good questions; we should reach out

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): we’ll look for his response tomorrow as it’s midnight in Paris
… and share that later

Karen Myers: @: Who is going to speak about Accessibility?

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): Liisa?

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Avneesh Singh and the new president of DAISY

Murata Makoto: just want to make sure the issues are covered

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: as does Luc

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): anything else on Digital Publishing Summit in Paris

3. TPAC 2019

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): Publishing BG F2F meeting
… and the community meeting
… From 9:00am to 12:00pm
… Agenda is not set yet
… I submitted the schedule to W3C events team
… we will discuss topics and presentations at the PubBG meeting in September

Murata Makoto: Do you plan some event before the TPAC meeting?

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): that is not planned yet
… the reason for choosing the morning of Thursday 19 Sept is because Murai-sensei from Keio is able to attend at this time
… the 14-15 were excluded from the meeting option

Murata Makoto: I wonder if ISO arranges a sight seeing event so everyone can enjoy Fukuoka

Karen Myers: +1 site seeing

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): related to W3C Publishing, no reason not to have meetings, but officially we will coordinate the PubBG meeting on Thursday

Karen Myers: Makoto-san and the Pub WG will meet on the 12-13

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): and after that I plan to have a social event

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): would you please share the information as to location to the PubBG
… and we can consider attending

Murata Makoto: this is my idea, but I’m sure it will be supported by Japanese Information Processing Society
… I will keep you informed

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): And you will inform APL
… and we can coordinate so everyone knows

Murata Makoto: the budget is a bit a limited, so counting on some sponsorship from Japanese publishers

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): you can bring up at APL
… I can approach @

Murata Makoto: That’s great

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): anybody else on TPAC PBG meeting?
… comment or questions?

4. EPUBCheck4.2 release candidate

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): it has been posted
… and we are soliciting publishing people, distributors, vendors, stores, to test the files
… and report to EPUBCheck group
… so that any kind of issues are adopted or fixed
… things like that
… anything to add, Liisa?

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: no, I think you got it

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): Any questions on EPUBCheck release candidate?
… other thing I could tell you
… this period will be available through mid-June
… then EPUB3.2 testimonial
… and EPUBCheck4.2 should be announced publicly as official versions
… the announcement will take place some time during the 15 April to end of April
… that is the plan
… questions or comments?

Shinya Takami: EPUBCheck4.2
… we have found a problem with our EPUB files
… the EPUB specification
… for example, how manga content
… has complicated order of navigation documents
… TOC order
… disabled…complicated order of POC
… some manga content has paper book
… some not @ order

Karen Myers: [Daihei to translate Takami-san]

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): take advantage of this Japan friendly time
… asking everyone to try to comment
… Takami-san explained that there was a problem when he tested the Kadokawa manga files
… some are popular and widely distributed in Japan
… if my translation is not correct
… let me know
… My understanding there was some difference in specification and file was made upon files already created based upon practices exercized in japan
… which is different from the specification
… in areas like the table of contents

Karen Myers: [TOC]

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): Did I explain this?
… is that ok?

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): I asked Takami-san if he already reported to EPUBCheck4.2 into Github

Wendy Reid: https://github.com/w3c/EPUBCheck/issues report here :)

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): he has not done it but he will report it so it will be reported for everybody
… same kind of practice
… might have been done into ebook publications in Japan already
… and also given the audio reading systems in japan did not create difficulties
… for manga EPUB files
… no complaints
… but now with the new EPUBChecker
… which is loyal to EPUB3.2
… error message; if not correct version being reported
… this is an issue that Japanese publishing companies could face

Karen Myers: ..and we have to find a solution

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: We ran into a similar problem at PRH
… and found a fairly simple way to solve
… it does not matter it’s not in same order as long as nav and manifest are in the same order
… we move the dedication of book to back of book
… so page 4 in print is after page 256
… it’s a matter of making sure we were matching the order
… that said
… we are not immediately going to fix every back list book
… we will fix as we redistribute them

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): got it

Murata Makoto: I have a question for Liisa
… when new store opens, will they find problems and come back to you?

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: sometimes, yes
… part of new store negotiation is that there may be some issues; figure out how ‘perfect’ would happen

Murata Makoto: publishers are not willing to fix incorrect publications?

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: I have 80,000 and cannot fix everyone of them in time for EPUB4.2 to come up

Karen Myers: Makoto-san: you have same problem with fixing errors

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: We will fix them as they come up with the new versions, and what version we last validated with

Karen Myers: Makoto-san: thanks

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): everybody has Liisa’s comment and explanation
… PRH is another case how she will deal
… may help other publications

Karen Myers: @: Maybe manga…not easy to move the pages backward

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: I would not recommend moving pages, just the nav, @ and manifest

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): once you upload your situation into Github people will react to it and we will see how it goes

Wendy Reid: I would like to second Daihei to please upload that situation to Github
… I know in my testing I have seen some new errors in the books
… as a book seller
… we probably won’t reject books for not meeting EPUBCHeck4.2; there will be grace period
… we see more warnings which we will look out for
… content has not changed, but we are validating on a stricter standard
… if it rendered to 4.2 it will likely do so after wards

Karen Myers: We are ready to take testimonials
… Please send testimonials to Ivan and me by email and cc the Publishing BG list
… we will then upload them and they will rotate on the publishing landing page and also be on a single page aggregated

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): any other questions on the EPUB4.2 release?

5. EPUBCheck Fundraising

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): So far two thirds of the targeted amount has been raised thanks to everyone
… and maintenance release
… for April 2019
… funding next phase, clean-up documentation and media overlay support
… this is scheduled to come out in Nov/Dec this year
… and phase 3 EPUBCheck prototype based on new HTML integration
… and phase 4 is maintenance in 2020
… up through phase four we would like to secure the targeted amount
… about $80K has been raised
… remainder is about $50K
… now that extra coordination task force
… under Bill Kasdorf, Joshi-san and myself are reaching out to worldwide publishing organizations to say that we still need more fund raising
… and appreciate your help to support EPUBCheck
… and comments or questions?
… Ok
… move on to EPUB3.2 and EPUB4.2 announcement
… Makoto-san would you please explain the outcome of the ISO meeting?

Murata Makoto: Does everybody have a copy of the ISO IC report?

Karen Myers: [can someone please drop in?]

Murata Makoto: I will send to archive and keep informed
… two topics: EPUB Accessibility and DRM
… first EPUB Accessibility
… we are going to create an international standard based on an old IDPF work
… Matt Garrish will work on this by June
… and hopefully draft new standard after the Fukuoka meeting
… and then we will have a draft international standard
… if all goes well we hope to have standard by June of next year
… issue is that EPUB Accessibility designed by DAISY is based on embedded meta data
… Italian publishers prefer detached, like ONYX rather than embedded in the EPUB publications
… there is a difference of opinions and we will continue discussions
… the second topic is DRM
… we have changed the title from DRM to specification of DRM in digital publications
… it now includes PDF
… we were asked by W3C Team not to use EPUB DRM
… hence we have this new title
… three parts: overview, LCP, device information
… parts one and two will probably be finished if lucky by end of this year and be published as specifications
… schedule for part three is not clear; clearer by September
… in Fukuoka meeting
… This is the general outline
… Any questions?

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): Thank you

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: I wanted to ask
… is there any consideration for allowing for the metadata in the package and in the metadata in ONYX?

Karen Myers: Makoto-san: yes

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: ONYX and embedded EPUB meta data is different
… not clear
… if every Accessible meta data can be captured by ONYX
… Francis Cave is chair
… still gap between ONYX and EPUB Accessibility meta data is not clear yet
… this is all I can say now

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): is that all right?

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: yes, thank you for the clarification

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): Makoto-san, anything else you would like to explain?

Murata Makoto: If you are interested, please join
… W3C members are welcome

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): any other comments or questions, then we will move on

6. EPUBCheck Announcement Plan

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): Karen explained about the testimonial process
… and announcement for the final report
… and launch call for consensus by mail within a week after that
… announce the availability of EPUBCheck4.2
… we will do launch communications widely
… and do a PR job

Murata Makoto: When is the target date?

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): Karen add anything?

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: I would note that it’s really important to finish the EPUB3.2 testing
… and report any issues
… there is fine tuning as they review EPUBCheck and make sure the spec reflects minor changes being made
… so please do report your testing

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): thank you, Liisa

Murata Makoto: what is the date?

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): emails will be sent for consensus
… by the end of April is the timing of the announcement

Murata Makoto: so EPUBCheck has to be finalized by the end of this month

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): discussion was to try testing and reporting by middle of April
… to stay on this schedule
… am I correct?

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Yes, it sounds like there have been some reported issues
… things have slowed down in the last week or so
… and it’s getting fairly stable
… so do report before 15 April; very important

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): any more comment or issues?
… move on to future discussion topics based on the Google doc

7. Future Discussion Topics

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): and next Asia friendly call
… a proposal
… everyone was asking if you could include your comment into the Google doc
… and I sent an email to you
… would you kindly explain your idea again?
… or put it up to the Google doc for comment

Murata Makoto: I made a comment already
… should we use the class attribute or the @ attribute or the EPUB attribute? Which of the three should we adopt
… EPUB type
… which attribute should we use
… Tzviya mentioned that industry is migrating from EPUB type to @ attribute
… Ruby for every character or different characters
… roll, class, EPUB Type?
… does this PubBG have a position
… or what are other publishers doing right now?

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): Thank you
… any response?

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: We had a conversation at ebookcraft recently
… about the fact that ARIA roles are worse than no ARIA rolls
… my PRH team decided to go ARIA crazy
… we are having all kinds of accessibility issues because we went overboard
… you made a really good point
… we should figure out what best practices are on how to adopt this stuff

Murata Makoto: I am interested in what you face in role attribute

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: I will write it up and send it to you

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): you can see the comments on the Google doc
… please make a comment in the Google doc
… any other comments on future topics, or future agenda list?
… there are several more added

Karen Myers: @: It is not clear to me

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): future discussion topics
… and there are several additional ones included recently in the Google do
… integrating with the web community
… adoption of EPUB3.2
… these items are listed in the Google doc
… and I am asking if anyone wants to talk about the topics listed in the Google doc?

Karen Myers: @: Submit testimonials; this is important for the public

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): which publishers will do that?
… who is going to send testimonials?

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: PRH does not usually do testimonials about technology
… but I am trying to get approval for a testimonial that we intend to adopt EPUB3.2 and use EPUBCHeck 4.2

Karen Myers: Takami-san: I think we will submit a testimonial

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): we will go through the process if we could

Karen Myers: Takami-san: if I want support and we are biggest users of EPUB3.2

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): if not support, what is the point

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): my plan is to approach to APL
… EPBJ
… and members
… APS
… to check with them if they could send out testimonials
… and the other industry organizations
… and digital publishing companies and other organizations ask their support to provide testimonials
… that is my job as one of the co-chairs
… and I will contact Taiwanese organizations to consider sending in testimonials
… and check with other publishers in Taiwan
… I don’t have contacts in China
… but if I find, I will contact them and go through same process

Murata Makoto: who can send testimonials?

Karen Myers: we will prioritize Pub BG and W3C members but welcome community testimonials as well

Wendy Reid: Daihei: Any other questions, comments? Let’s call the meeting for the night

Wendy Reid: … Thanks everyone

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): in future, please put q+ to ask questions in future

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): Karen, thanks for scribing!