Publishing Business Group Telco — Minutes

Date: 2019-08-13

See also the Agenda and the IRC Log

Attendees

Present: Luc Audrain, Wolfgang Schindler, Murata Makoto, Wendy Reid, Ivan Herman, Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平), Jonathan Greenberg, Dave Cramer, Avneesh Singh, Julie Blair, Dan Sanicola, Garth Conboy, George Kerscher, Julian Calderazi, Bill Kasdorf

Regrets: Rachel Comerford

Guests:

Chair: Luc Audrain

Scribe(s): Garth Conboy

Content:

Luc Audrain: Starting. Late agenda.
… F2F in Fukuoka

Ivan Herman: See latest version of the agenda

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): Listing in the minutes: agenda
… PBG meeting in Fukuoka on Thursday
… Sept 19th
… Two co-chairs: Luc & Daihei
… Most agenda confirmed w/ speakers
… Need more folks for #4 on agenda for other perspectives of publishing on Web
… Program committee next week to confirm and finalize

Luc Audrain: Thank you
… Shared with SC for comments; now’s the time for comments

Murata Makoto: Translations available?

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): Will be live translators (both directions)

Luc Audrain: Open for BG members, but also other TPAC folks too.

Avneesh Singh: one sided lecture or discussion/seminar format?

Luc Audrain: More discussion format.
… Will be discussions for each of the topics — speakers shouldn’t fill their time.

Murata Makoto: Will we have a list of attendees in advance?

Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平): MC’s will make sure there are discussions for each (with speaker answering first)
… plus audience participation

Avneesh Singh: Audience participation should be clear in the agenda.

1. Report on Amazon meeting at PWG F2F of TPAC 2019 Fukuoka

Luc Audrain: Will allocate some time for Amazon.

Murata Makoto: Great news!

Avneesh Singh: AMZN joined W3C recently
… Meeting in Seattle
… A11Y is their priority
… Want to improve the state of A11Y on Kindle
… EPUB3 is a keen interest; likely being those features to Kindle

Murata Makoto: Fantastic!

Avneesh Singh: 250 people in EPUB CG — AMZN should join (and seem interested)
… Tables and MathML — in theory Kindlegen supports?
… Perhaps follow-up to be coming from Audible team.
… Not too much interest in WP (publishing on the Web)

Murata Makoto: Will they talk about detection of TTS-ready publications??

Avneesh Singh: Didn’t get that deep; but hopefully in the future.

Ivan Herman: Will have some time with AMZN during PWG meeting in Fukuoka.
… submit suggestions on that topic to Wendy.

Wendy Reid: Wendy and Rachel are working on a “getting started” email to AMZN

Murata Makoto: I would like to know their reaction to EPUB A11Y.

Luc Audrain: We’re not too deep in technical details yet — but hopefully will get that way. Interoperability and A11Y at top of list.
… Discussion both in France & W3C on this topic — Luc & Avneesh.

2. HTML longdesc is proposed to be obsolete

Luc Audrain: In HTML longdesc attribute proposed to be obsoleted. Seeking usage info on this attribute.

George Kerscher: Longdesc created a long time ago, pointing to page, not much usage
… Not liked by various W3C members; was added back as extension
… APA asking if it should be eliminated?
… Can <details> be used instead. ARIA details can point to such also.
… At epubtest.org has a title that can be used to determine best practices for a longdesc replacement.

Bill Kasdorf: Has not recommended use of longdesc in HTML. Looking forward to resolution.

Luc Audrain: discussion here to see if publishers currently using longdesc in HTML.

Julie Blair: We do use it now; looking for alternatives.
… Very interested in this topic.

Bill Kasdorf: Note that SAGE is a scholarly publisher–so it doesn’t surprise me that they’re using longdesc

Luc Audrain: Accepted by ACE.

Bill Kasdorf: Will contact various other scholarly folks for more info (journal hosting, et al).

Avneesh Singh: Need to get this data before decision (re longdesc) is made (beyond EPUB too).
… EPUB CG should help gather usage data

Dave Cramer: Browser folks can gather such usage data, and this drives deprecation decisions.
… Using a feature doesn’t mean it’s really acted upon by Reading System.
… non-conforming feature.

Luc Audrain: See List of HTML features that are considered obsolete by the WhatWG HTML people

George Kerscher: Industry has changed; announced by screen reader users, but not other renderers. Need to provide it to other users.
… Deprecate with better alternative would likely be good.

Avneesh Singh: our action items for long desc?

3. call schedules

Luc Audrain: different schedule for calls?
… Go to two calls per month? Every other week. One Europe time, one Asia time.
… Work items done outside call with reports back to group on calls.
… resolutions on calls (followed by email).
… Maybe using github issues.

Avneesh Singh: Could work better, if motivation is maintained.

Luc Audrain: Non-urgent items like pop-ups.
… Need to gather actions and resolutions.

Avneesh Singh: This highly focused task force looks good
… Task forces could work well.

Bill Kasdorf: PCG could be used for development of proposed solutions.

Luc Audrain: Proposed new dates for calls to come along with a list of items coming.

Wendy Reid: What about roadmap of future work of publishing activity?
… needs to drive WG roadmap. Needs to be on agenda soon (for BG).

Julian Calderazi: +1 to Wendy also

Luc Audrain: Unclear if this falls to PBG.

Avneesh Singh: Some assignments to BG in Strategy meeting. Wiki page with action items and objectives.

Luc Audrain: Will look and propose.

Ivan Herman: See Minutes of the overall strategy call

Wendy Reid: WG has objective for remainder of Charter — need to think about next Charter (if there is one) — need this data.

Ivan Herman: WG’s connection to BG hasn’t generated (historically) what business needs are — this can drive WG direction. So, +1 to Wendy.

Luc Audrain: Such will now be on task force agenda.
… Should be on agenda for next calls.

Ivan Herman: Will this BG call change impact SC meetings?

Luc Audrain: Likely not.

Avneesh Singh: Frequent SC meetings are required for strategy development

Luc Audrain: AOB?

Ivan Herman: +1 to Avneesh

Luc Audrain: Output from Strategy call… are these really requests/resolutions?

Wendy Reid: Yes, assignments for other groups; EPUB 3 CG is well on its way.

Ivan Herman: See the table drawn by Rachel in the minutes of the strategy call

Avneesh Singh: Coordination in SC. Publishing Champion. W3M too.