Publishing Steering Committee Telco — Minutes

Date: 2018-02-23

Attendees

Present: Bill Kasdorf, Luc Audrain, George Kerscher, Ivan Herman, Dave Cramer, Tzviya Siegman, Bill McCoy, Garth Conboy, Liisa McCloy-Kelley, Karen Myers

Regrets: Rachel Comerford, Jun-ichi Yoshii, Rick Johnson

Guests:

Chair: Liisa McCloy-Kelley, Luc Audrain

Scribe(s): Dave Cramer

Luc Audrain: I trust everyone is receiving emails from the new publishing SC mailing list

Ivan Herman: I updated the charter text, and turned it into proper HTML
… on the BG home page, the chairs have been updated
… I have updated the internal database entry for the steering committee so the ML is up to date
… it contains all the people on the SC, plus Ralph and Karen

Luc Audrain: thank you

Ivan Herman: the BG membership is different, as people can remove themselves

Tzviya Siegman: I just wanted to point out that Dave scribes every meeting; we should have a scribe rotation so we take turns

Luc Audrain: we already tried a chair rotation :)

1. What resources to use?

Luc Audrain: I sent an agenda; we’ve started the first topic
… are we OK using Github for BG?

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: I thought we weren’t for the BG

Bill Kasdorf: that’s what I thought too

Luc Audrain: it should be PBGSC?

Ivan Herman: there are two things
… yes, we agreed for BG work, we would use Google Docs and not Github

Tzviya Siegman: If we are going to use google docs, let’s create a folder so it’s easier to keep track

Luc Audrain: +1

Ivan Herman: we have had a github repo for a long time, and that can be used in three ways
… one is that it has a wiki
… available for the SC and the BG
… we could use it for SC documents
… the same repo now is set up in a way that it produces more flexible public website
… we can add documents that are seen on the web properly, we can keep it more fresh
… that’s why I set it up–I cloned the PWG web page style

Luc Audrain: tzviya, you mentioned we should have a folder for google docs?

Tzviya Siegman: someone should create a folder, and share the folder with the group. It makes it much easier to keep track
… create a PBG folder, then share the folder with the group

Bill Kasdorf: that sounds good

liisamk >t: clarify- is the GitHub to help us manage this page and the wiki associated? https://www.w3.org/community/publishingbg/

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: I put a link into IRC
… is that the page you’re referencing?

Ivan Herman: no, that’s the problem. That page is difficult to modify.
… it can only be modified by W3T
… what I have is this one: https://w3c.github.io/publ-bg/
… that is governed by github; we could put in redirects

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: can we link this from that page?

Ivan Herman: yes, we can

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: we should add to group communications a link to the google docs folder

Luc Audrain: so this would be the main page for the PBG for all docs
… who creates the Google Drive Folder?

Tzviya Siegman: anyone can

Bill McCoy: we can get rid of the other publishing page?

Ivan Herman: the old page, I don’t know if it can be auto-redirected
… the other possibility is to put a link on the old page, saying this is where we do the real work

Bill McCoy: that’s OK
… my concern is that if people create a drive folder it may disappear
… it might need to be done by a w3c account

Luc Audrain: +1

Bill McCoy: what we want is a w3c Google enterprise account

Ivan Herman: the problem is, Google docs cannot be accessed from China
… so W3M would be wary of having any official W3C docs that are not available to everyone in the world

Bill McCoy: I’ll look into it

George Kerscher: happily, a11y for Google docs has improved, so now I can read and edit :)

Tzviya Siegman: until we have an enterprise account, an individual with a stable address could create the folder; then we could switch
… I really want to avoid loose documents

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: +1 to Tzviya

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: I’ll set it up

2. EPUB Roadmap TF

Luc Audrain: I’ve been thinking about the process for the EPUB Road Map task force, with the help of Garth and Dave
… the first question is the number of the new release, and the CG has reached consensus on EPUB 3.2
… as the SC, do we agree?
… and second, do we agree with the overall principles at stake in new revision, such as compatibility with 3.0.1

Bill Kasdorf: +1

Luc Audrain: do we think it’s a good idea to move in this direction?

Bill McCoy: point of order, the new SC no longer has decision making powers
… the question should be posed to the BG on Tuesday
… this group should restrict itself to figuring out what tasks belong to what groups, and to work on agenda for BG

Garth Conboy: I’m pro 3.2 and I vote
… I think the task force should meet quickly

Bill McCoy: maybe a meeting isn’t even needed

Garth Conboy: we did form a task force, we should actually have a meeting :)
… we can bring it to the BG, and hopefully they will bless us

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: do we have any sense that anyone will push back

Garth Conboy: makoto is pushing this

Luc Audrain: Dave: consensus in CG Over 3.2

Luc Audrain: … probably technical disputes, natural and healthy

Luc Audrain: the ISO question was discussed with Makoto, and 3.2 is OK

George Kerscher: Makoto is good with this, and it will trigger EPUB a11y 1.1 work to move forward
… I spoke to Avneesh earlier; he will email people to start

Luc Audrain: the idea is to set up a call for the road map task force, to present this plan to BG on Tuesday, and announce on Tuesday that the task force would meet next Thursday
… it would hopefully adopt the overall idea of 3.2
… and ask for the CG to proceed
… the next step is that the CG does its work
… and as Dave said, disputes on tech details :)
… and after a certain amount of time, there would be a new 3.2 spec adopted by CG
… as a BG we need to endorse this spec
… we will have discussions, and then if we agree as a BG we could have something like a CR
… and when this last call for consensus is made, then I don’t know if formal objections could be made
… then this new spec would have a status – community group note? But it would be the official latest version of EPUB

Luc Audrain: Dave: first EPUB spec under W3C

Luc Audrain: … so do good job more than quick work

Luc Audrain: … see Jiminy issues in existing spec

Garth Conboy: I would love to see real progress by Berlin

Tzviya Siegman: +1000, dauwhe

Dave Cramer: we should do good work, and deal with interop

Garth Conboy: I think it’s important to have progress in a post-merger world

Ivan Herman: the point of Dave is that this is the first time we publish something as W3C, so we should do it well

Dave Cramer: it is a community group note

Ivan Herman: that is correct

Luc Audrain: any comments?
… that’s the plan, we should explain this in the next BG meeting, and have a call of the task force
… we cover the numbering, the principles, the rationale.
… any objections of a call on Thursday, March 1?

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: you could announce today that it’s on Tuesday :)

Luc Audrain: that’s Tuesday, February 27

Garth Conboy: could we do before the BG call?
… a way to move faster

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: +1 to moving faster

Tzviya Siegman: it is probably better for Japan too

Garth Conboy: I could do 9 or 10 EST that day

Luc Audrain: 10am in NYC?

Ivan Herman: who should be there?

Garth Conboy: people who signed up for the task force in the doc

George Kerscher: which task force?

Luc Audrain: EPUB 3 road map

Bill McCoy: I can recommend that you send an email to entire BG, with a [header]

Luc Audrain: I see dave, garth, tzviya, julian, rick, matteus, and makoto
… it will be hard for Makoto

Garth Conboy: I can be his proxy :)

3. A11y task force

George Kerscher: we have the a11y guidelines from IDPF
… done by MG
… they have not been updated
… we now have the ACE knowledgebase
… so we’re trying to maintain two sets of guidelines
… we would like to either redirect that URL to the ACE kb
… or put a link at the beginning saying it’s no longer maintained
… but we can’t update the old site
… so we’re asking the SC to endorse one of those approaches
… and put that to the BG for consensus

Ivan Herman: I am not sure I understood

George Kerscher: this is IDPF guidelines, so this is BG

Bill McCoy: maintenance of idpf website is a w3t issue
… we can obsolete and point to latest information
… I assume you don’t want to host on W3C

Tzviya Siegman: https://idpf.github.io/a11y-guidelines/ this is the outdated site in question

George Kerscher: DAISY had Matt write the O’Reilly book, and the guidelines were extracted from the book
… if we want to move stuff to W3C in the future, that’d be great, but for now pointing to the KB is what we should achieve

Bill McCoy: who owns the copyright?
… are they IDPF copyright?

George Kerscher: they’re on the IDPF website, so I think it’s IDPF copyright

Tzviya Siegman: it is IDPF Copyright

Bill McCoy: so you might need rights from IDPF

George Kerscher: I don’t know.
… the ideas are based on W3C WCAG standards, and point to them
… the ideas originate with W3C
… I don’t know if there was any exact language that was taken from the IDPF website
… I’ll check with Matt

Bill Kasdorf: I’m not clear how this discussion relates to EPUB a11y 1.0
… I hope we’re not talking about abandoning that

Luc Audrain: +1

Tzviya Siegman: it’s also available at https://www.w3.org/Submission/2017/SUBM-epub-a11y-20170125/

George Kerscher: no, we’re not abandoning it
… and with EPUB 3.2, we’re going to update EPUB a11y to version 1.1, and submit to ISO

Luc Audrain: tzviya put up a link to this doc

Tzviya Siegman: about transferring the daisy KB
… W3C doesn’t do documentation like this
… I had a conversation with Matt about that
… Dan Applequist of the TAG suggested some of this move to MDN
… aside from issues of copyright, he pointed out that most of what’s in Daisy KB is mostly not epub-specific; it’s best practices on writing HTML
… we could call it W3C accessible publishing documentation
… the w3c doesn’t have a logical home for this

George Kerscher: DAISY would be happy to move to W3C space whenever appropriate

Bill Kasdorf: thanks for pointing out that epub a11y has been moved as member submission
… what should we do about the IDPF guidelines? people are linking to it.

Luc Audrain: how do we move forward?

Luc Audrain: there is also the a11y techniques doc

Dave Cramer: https://w3c.github.io/publ-cg/guides/epub-a11y-faq.html

George Kerscher: there’s the techniques doc, which should be moved

Luc Audrain: the link to the techniques in the EPUB a11y points to IDPF website

George Kerscher: maybe we should bring that to the CG

Luc Audrain: that’s good

Luc Audrain: anything else we should think about? Is it clear?

George Kerscher: so this will become an agenda item for the BG

Bill McCoy: the roadmap task force should think about where the 3.2 note goes

Luc Audrain: have we settled how often we have a call?

Bill McCoy: can someone send an email to the BG with an agenda?

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: let’s do agenda via email after this call
… important thing is to get announcement about task force

Bill McCoy: and let’s not forget epubcheck financing