Publishing Steering Committee Telco — Minutes

Date: 2018-11-02

See also the Agenda and the IRC Log

Attendees

Present: Dave Cramer, Jun-ichi Yoshii, Ivan Herman, Daihei Shiohama, Luc Audrain, Ralph Swick, Rick Johnson, Wendy Reid, Bill Kasdorf, Liisa McCloy-Kelley, Tzviya Siegman, George Kerscher, Jeff Jaffe, Garth Conboy, Rachel Comerford

Regrets:

Guests:

Chair: Liisa McCloy-Kelley

Scribe(s): Luc Audrain, Ralph Swick

Content:

genda: https://www.w3.org/mid/525C681B-A16F-4417-85B2-8435615C1B7F@penguinrandomhouse.com

1. Recap on the TPAC and email discussions

Wendy Reid: blog post

Tzviya Siegman: https://t.co/HWFXkhVEsv

Ralph Swick: -> https://www.w3.org/blog post “Publishing at TPAC 2018”/2018/11/publishing-at-tpac-2018/ Wendy’s blog post “Publishing at TPAC 2018”

Wendy Reid: 2 days very productive
… use case minimal viable product
… boundaries defined
… i18n, JSON-LD and schemas

Luc Audrain: .. 2nd day ; what to do with EPUB 3.2

Wendy Reid: agreement bring EPUB 3.2 on REC Track, in the PWG
… still working on WP, and PWP for audiobooks
… push EPUB4 later

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: CG working on testing, build the features set for testing

Dave Cramer: possibility to move EPUB3.2 to REC Track
… address the pub industry,
… questions on ISO

Tzviya Siegman: rewrite the charter to make this possible
… one proposal is to bring PEUB 3.2 in the PWG
… what happens to WP
… doing WP as a living standard, and address audiobooks and comics
… present business needs
… make spec by modules

George Kerscher: epubtest.org, will it be used?

Dave Cramer: decouple any effort for testing EPUB 3.2 testing from epubtest.org
… general structure is not what we need for this effort

George Kerscher: neither for a11y

Rachel Comerford: +1 dauwhe

Tzviya Siegman: +1 dauwhe

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: XWP as a living standard
… audiobook as a module

Ralph Swick: interested in Tzviya proposal of continuously evolving standard
… « evegreen standard »
… very important to describe what it means
… cautions to use the term living without before providing definition

Dave Cramer: that idea is to evolve from browser providing some implementation
… not sure it applies to WP

Tzviya Siegman: the goal of the evergreen is to constantly updating std
… suggestion some specific for audiobook, comics
… publish modules and in the future WP

Ralph Swick: [“modules” – ala CSS ?]

Garth Conboy: concept evergreen for WP doesn’t work, but headstart on audiobook
… copy in a profile for audiobook, comics, that form the longer term WP dev
… agree with tzviya

Dave Cramer: WP work with audiobook, manga and such: concerns to move with those in WP context
… make decision with impacts
… the need for today’s will it be the global WP need?

Jeff Jaffe: recognize Dave’s concern
… but the best place to discuss is in the WG itself
… These are tech issues not SC

Dave Cramer: +1 to jeff

Luc Audrain: +1

Garth Conboy: +1

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: We have a lot of work to do to let everyone know on TPAC discussions
… moving on testing and epubcheck to get transparency on features implemented or not
… people nervous on what will change

Wendy Reid: +1

Bill Kasdorf: +1 to Jeff

George Kerscher: the audiobook spec as a WP is fine,
… but real need is to have audiobooks downloadable
… concerned by the packaging aspect

Wendy Reid: for the packaging, no solution today, PWP in the end,
… still closer from WP than from 3.2, that’s for the WG to decide
… agree for the packaging issue

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: role for the BG to play in requirements?

Wendy Reid: need for BG input for users and implementers

George Kerscher: +1 to needing BG input on audio books.

Wendy Reid: talk to APA to get information

2. future work on EPUB 3.2

Ivan Herman: running ahead in details
… not yet decided: what we do with EPUB3.2
… if it goes to REC or not
… whatever model we use is a detail
… 3.2 REC yes or no is to be decided

Ivan Herman: back to original thing, the question is for the WG
… what is the next step?
… how we decide to go for a REC track
… chartering will no be easy
… how do we do to get there?
… REC track has to be answered asap

Luc Audrain: we identified two parallel tasks
… questions on features of EPub 3.2, testing, bug gathering
… collect everything we know about EPUB 3.2 issues
… it will be necessary if we go REC track to have this
… and it will be useful to the community even if we do not go REC track
… we can work on this in the Community Group in parallel with work on rechartering the WG
… what becomes PWP, EPUB4; to be addressed in a new charter
… I have the impression that the TPAC conversations lead to the possibility of working in parallel

Ivan Herman: I almost agree
… starting now on testing 100% ok
… whatever happens, it will be good to do it now
… problem on chartering process, it will modify the how WG will operate
… doing that makes sense only if there is a clear will for the community for this to happen
… need a stronger statement from the BG
… unconformable, mailing list discussion don’t seem to bring consensus on this, personal reaction

Jeff Jaffe: it seems to me there was a consensus
… WG scale of deliveries with different time scales make sense
… point of ivan for a clear signal from the BG, that 3.2 on REC track is a priority

Ralph Swick: [… and will benefit the Web by @@ ]

Jeff Jaffe: I agree with Ivan, the meeting on Tuesday of the BG
… if the BG says it solves business needs
… then it’s a go

Rick Johnson: read the TPAC minutes, very excited, 3.2 potential to provide great stability
… change to make people stop EPUB2,

Bill Kasdorf: +1 to RickJ

Rick Johnson: very orderly process to move WP
… need to convince the industry to get there
… very positive direction
… I do agree that discussion until now was ok, but stuck in details

Bill Kasdorf: and addressing the details are technical issues, which is the WG’s role

Luc Audrain: the BG hasn’t yet officially said it supports EPUB 3.2 on the Rec track
… we need to bring the vision of the publishing industry; we have to let them think about this
… present the pros and cons
… we are aware that some issues need to be solved but the general view is positive
… the idea is for the BG to present this path as positive and gather reactions
… do a call for consensus

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: the next BG call will present pros and cons
… discussion showed what is worrying some of us
… what is the timing for EPUB3.2

Tzviya Siegman: good idea for a document for pros and cons
… in general with spec, TR
… when epubcheck will be available, EPUB3.2 will start to be used
… part of the testing phase

Luc Audrain: +1

Ivan Herman: W3C work with REC, last phase work is often on details
… when, in a W3C group we go to a CR, the tech work has been done, now the testing has to start
… tech job on 3.2 is done, we need to go one testing as it is,
… not the intention to do something new:

Dave Cramer: precedent in W3C for a CG report to go to REC track
… need to clear that it is a stage in the journey
… not something new, but not tie our hand
… keep on principle on interoperability

George Kerscher: +1 to Dave
… start testing in CG asap
… bring that body of knowledge with us when we go to REC Track

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Makoto’s argument, something pulled out when we go to REC Track

Dave Cramer: extremely confident to find implementation for all
… it is theoretical argument more than practical

Bill Kasdorf: almost by definition, if people have implemented features that means they will NOT be removed

Bill Kasdorf: lots of work in Japan as well

3. Epubcheck funding

Rachel Comerford: google doc with couple of lines for contact to reach organization

Wendy Reid: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iAGhd99aVhXAUCQwITWZwAHARQbnSet9IUFTj_DbqdM/edit just in case

Rachel Comerford: staying in constant contact to everyone one
… encouraging the use the spreadsheets to personal relations to companies

Rick Johnson: donation form CoreSource and message to all CoreSource customers
… also from Ingram

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: TPI conversation, high level conversation
… send a draft here

Rick Johnson: I will be on a flight during the BG call on Tuesday, and unable to join.

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: BG actively engaging in mail this week, advantage to partner with local org
… APL in Japan, EDRLab in Europe
… also with BISG

4. BG meeting preparation

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: draft something before the BG call

Ivan Herman: the first question is the 3.2 question

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: also on audio for the WG

Ivan Herman: secondary question

George Kerscher: BG call to emphasize how to fill the business needs

Luc Audrain: +1