Publishing Business Group Steering Committee — Minutes
Date: 28 June 2019
See also the Agenda and the IRC Log
Attendees
Present: Ivan Herman, Ralph Swick, Luc Audrain, Rachel Comerford, Wendy Reid, Dave Cramer, Liisa McCloy-Kelley, Jeff Jaffe, Bill Kasdorf, George Kerscher
Regrets: Tzviya Siegman, Garth Conboy, Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平), Jun’Ichi Yoshii
Guests:
Chair: Rachel Comerford
Scribe(s): Luc Audrain, Dave Cramer
Content:
Luc Audrain: Scribe laudrain
1. message sent out by Dave
Ralph Swick: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishing-sc/2019Jun/0014.html
Rachel Comerford: discussions about the future of WP spec and audiobook spec
Dave Cramer: serious concerns about the current state of the WP spec
… publishers not to implement it soon
… no clear business case
… content creator not eager to create a new format
… nothing we can do in existing format
… dissatisfaction in the WG this year
… proposal to suspend work on WP as no clear business need
… focus on audio spec as business case
… people willing to implement
… pickup on WP later based on broader participation and clearer business calls
… and discussion on the future of EPUB itself
… EPUB 3.x track and more
… focus on areas where we have business needs
Bill Kasdorf: surprised on disappointed
… chicken and egg problem here
… not more publishers around the table
… EPUB3..2 is a good thing for the Pub industry
… one problem is people continue to have a need in browsers
… OECD publish Web Book
… complex document more than individual Web site
… they make EPUB but they are not sufficient
…
… I would hate that he concept of a complex pub in browser being abandoned
… There is a barrier today for an EPUB working on the Web
… Web participation missing
… Scholarly publishing are publishing article in Web sites
Wendy Reid: emphasized that we are not killing WP
… publish as a note : it is here
… other group may take it BDComa, Pub CG
… Pub trade industry may be interested later
… make it even more open to any group interested, like non profit org
… problem we are now recieving feedback
… major publisher already say they would not use WP
… at DPub summit , the future of EPUB is still bright
Bill Kasdorf: +1 that we’re not at the point of needing to replace EPUB
Wendy Reid: at least for couple of years
Rachel Comerford: for us as a member, audiobook is a big draw
… decrease membership in the W3C changes the way we as a company would be interested in W3C
… focus on audiobook and what happen to EPUB4
Wendy Reid: looking at the option of asking the industry about the future of EPUB
… the WG would not recharter as a WG
… we need to legitimizing EPUB as a REC track
Jeff Jaffe: 2 questions
… one about the WG
… Wg are best when they focus on business need and implementer behind
… positive on the change of direction
… overall groups at W3C, we recognize they is a lot of shifting before we work on the proper consensus
… nothing going on to a place with a broad point of view
… what the roadmap is
… seq art: refining on WP
… where is that taking place
… we need a strong initiative outside the WG to a vision for the next years
George Kerscher: pub on th e web today is horrible, PDF doc
… there isn’t an existing pub standard to replace PDF
… more and more epeople using mobile phone, opportunity to define a spec
… business case for commercial publisher may not be there
… I see different profile to support manga and other area not in EPUB be very good
… moving EPUB3 forward to embrace pub activities
Dave Cramer: to George, less PDF on the web, but every system allow to create PDF pushing a button
… EPUB was a possible replacement for PDF but didn’t happen
… HTML building things in the Web platform would work better
… building indvidual features in the platform rather a new format
… require a lot of work and effort and money to bring compelling business use cases, new revenues, no answer to that question
Bill Kasdorf: OECD need something else than EPUB
… instead of standard going more complex, they get to profile
… see ODRL
… on REC track, it went more simple as framexwork and profiles
… are we not close enough that WP give a framework for manga cases
… the standard should not try to everything for everybody
… i do agree that for books, just continuing EPUB3 is the way to go
Liisa McCloy-Kelley: this is the right move right now
… agree that we don’t want to give up the dream
… a way forward to focus on audiobook
… make audiobook spreadsheet to nav doc
… good opportunity from the Japanese issue on validation
… alternative on navigation
… spine order but also on another way : another generation of EPUB
… good stepping stone on the way to where we have to go
… in PBG we have struggle to involve people to engage in W3C community
Ivan Herman: to George love your understatement on PDF
… Web Pub is the extreme, fully part of the web, may raise issues
… Version of EPUB can be presented in a browser, a viewer can work very well with a11y features
… looking at how PEUB could evolve with incremental steps
… the idea EPUB evolve and have that done in the right way
… what would happen with the dreams
… several CG going alive
… parallels action: we do a WG, we would revive the DPug IG with a ne setup
… with more specific goals than we have in the CG
… security, resource from all over the web
… difficult to sole with WPub
… about the WP providing the minimal profile
… this extremely general on the Web creates lots of issues
… if the idea is to take the audiobook spec, probably what is there as a manifest may be reuse in other profile like for Manga
… could be used as a common vocabulary
Wendy Reid: to jeff, other thing we need to explore, bring new ideas
… worth to have another workshop on the future of digital pub
… keep it broad, and getting input from people like OECD
… get more idea on other groups we need
George Kerscher: work more closely with the HTML community, good idea from Dave
… we need to make to know HTML as a publication format
… and EPUB converging in the road
Luc Audrain: the discussion is important
… I don’t think we should lose the dream, as Liisa says
… these hopes for having in the future for having something more webby
… we know the work of w3c for the publishing industry is important
… we have more involvement and more openness for the industry to work with us
… there is a major problem because of w3c fees
… and digital income is only a small portion of their business
… around 8% in France
… it make take time. We have to figure out how to get the commitment of the industry
… we had an idea with Wendy during the summit to have more community groups
… to make the industry more aware
… a publishing a11y community group, for example
… to find help, to voice their concerns
… to find a process for their publications
… like Dave is asking in the CG, how to get community questions answered
… we should not lose hope. standards take a long time.
… if it means we should suspend, I still don’t want us to lose hope
Bill Kasdorf: rel
… client seeing content in granular terms
… client changing their focus as book as a web site
… lot in education
… granular and packaged in different ways
… love the model of suspending
… we realize that incubation needs to come before
… with WP, here’s here we are, and with that go where you want
Jeff Jaffe: W3C doesn’t care about revenue, CG for incubation is feature not a bug
… as a SC, involve and driving the effort
Luc Audrain: I was speaking to Avneesh, who is now on the AB
Rachel Comerford: laudrain: I spoke with avneesh at the dpub summit
Luc Audrain: I think he should be here in the SC
… his vision and experience in strategy should be a good thing for us
Liisa McCloy-Kelley: +1 to Avneesh joining the SC
Luc Audrain: I think he has a role to play, not just for a11y but for everything
… I think he should be a member of our group
Wendy Reid: +1
Jeff Jaffe: +1
Ivan Herman: +1
Bill Kasdorf: +1
Luc Audrain: +1
George Kerscher: +1000
Dave Cramer: look at the charter?
Liisa McCloy-Kelley: SC chairs of the group plus experts…
Dave Cramer: “and other members as chosen by the Business Group”
Dave Cramer: +1
Rachel Comerford: +1
Ralph Swick: [by the Business group, not by the SC itself]
Ivan Herman: plan to have the text sent to the WG to discuss on Monday
Dave Cramer: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aGK2EbcIkWGBfM_EDoiIwiOawCAC8-PYWT96WPjNHAg/edit#
Ivan Herman: if you have comment please send comments
Ralph Swick: -> https://www.w3.org/2017/02/PublishingBGcharter W3C Publishing Business Group Charter
Wendy Reid: will be sent today
Ralph Swick: [[
Ralph Swick: The steering committee has no independent authority; formal decision-making remains in the Publishing BG as a whole. The membership of the Steering Committee shall include the chairs of all working groups, interest groups, and community groups associated with Publishing @W3C (provided those chairs are members of the Publishing BG), and ex officio members include the W3C’s Publishing Champion,
Ralph Swick: the W3C staff contacts for each group, and other members as chosen by the Business Group, up to a maximum of 16 members.
Ralph Swick: ]]
Liisa McCloy-Kelley: follow for the BG on Tuesday
Ivan Herman: any decision of the WG is valid only after a week
… that should be enough
George Kerscher: need approval from the PBG for Avneesh to join
Liisa McCloy-Kelley: will be setup on Tuesday