07 January 2022


AndyS, Doerthe, gkellogg, olaf, ora, pchampin, rivettp
olaf, pchampin

Meeting minutes

Announcements and newcomers

pchampin: no announcements

Open actions

<pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Aaction

pchampin: one open actions on the RDF-star repo

<pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/231

gkellogg: all updated

pchampin: it was about the test suites

gkellogg: accomplished and Andy found some other issues that were cleared up as well

<pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg-charter/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Aaction

pchampin: there are also actions related to the charter
… no progress on these yet
… also two open PRs
… since no additional feedback on them, they will be merged

Publicity of RDF-star

pchampin: rationale for this iterm: there is a lot going on on the mailing list
… most of it is about possible limitations of RDF-star
… much noise about the parts that are missing
… but not much about the benefits and what we have achieved

olaf: I see it the same way as pchampin
… the mailing list may give the impression that we have failed
… some discussions on twitter may give the same impression
… what can we do to put more weight on the benefits of what we have achieved?
… also, it is hard to follow/respond to those long discussions

AndyS: parts of these discussion wander off into directions where RDF-star would not be a direct solution anyway
… dedicated ontologies would be more appropriate
… UK released such an ontology (4D ontology, not using RDF-star)
… called IES (Information Exchange Standard)

gkellogg: the RDF-star got somehow hijacked by RDF wishlists

gkellogg: unfortunately, the discussion/list of RDF-star got high jacked

<rivettp> Here's a public presentation about IES https://gateway.newton.ac.uk/sites/default/files/asset/doc/2105/Ian%20Bailey.pdf

AndyS: maybe too early, but we could gather examples of succesful use of RDF-star

olaf: some people are claiming that RDF-star is not good for anything

pchampin: Andy's idea about gathering success stories of RDF-star could be useful

ora: what could be done about it?
… AWS has a database blog
… which has a fairly large readership
… maybe a blog post there?
… about what RDF-star is


pchampin: that would be great

AndyS: solicit more implementation reports
… Ontotext?

pchampin: they may wait for the WG?
… reach out to the people who were involved in the early days of our task force

<AndyS> [off] rivettp - great! (Ian is the IES editor)

rivettp: more examples needed
… not so much examples that focus on edge cases (marriage)
… RDF-star gives more rope to hang yourself

inverse properties may be problematic

pchampin: the inverse was mentioned in one of the github issues

<pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star/issues/200

AndyS: impl.report from RDF4J ?

gkellogg: discussions on the list went off because of the complexity of modelling
… ongoing are still questions about the fundamentals of RDF-star

pchampin: there were also comments by Pat

Doerthe: I wasn't that active in the discussions b/c of the Christmas break
… we may say what the relationship to Property Graphs is.

ora: maybe reach out to Pat again?

<gkellogg> +1

pchampin: I agree to Doerthe's comment about the Property Graphs
… present a direct mapping

<pchampin> https://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-n-aryRelations/

pchampin: also the design patterns for n-ary relations in RDF may deserve an update
… that document may contain cases in which RDF-star is a good means and other in which it is not
… back to PGs: the direct mapping would have an indirection

AndyS: Sounds all like working on a background for the WG

pchampin: perhaps these things may be listed as deliverables for the WG -- although there is already a long list of deliverables

AndyS: some write-up of the issue of transparency may be helpful

rivettp: encourage others in the W3C community to go beyond RDF-star
… probably outside the scope of this group here
… establish best practices around using RDF-star

olaf: to summarize: 1) reach out to implementors

<AndyS> [off] I'll talk to RDF4J

olaf: I can reach out to Ontotext and Stardog
… 2) AWS blog post
… 3) add more examples, collect them on the CG blog

pchampin: any example for point 3?

AndyS: I recently came about an example in the context of DBpedia

Action: olaf to reach out to Ontotext and Stardog

Action: pchampin to reach out to Corese

Action: AndyS to reach out to RDF4J

Action: ora to publish a post on the AWS blog

Action: ora to reach out to Pat Hayes

olaf: the examples we publish on the CG blog need to be carefully designed

Action: pchampin to write a CG blog post about different kinds of occurrences

<rivettp> I'm interested in examples

WG chartering

pchampin: not much to add on the topic of the charter at this point

Summary of action items

  1. olaf to reach out to Ontotext and Stardog
  2. pchampin to reach out to Corese
  3. AndyS to reach out to RDF4J
  4. ora to publish a post on the AWS blog
  5. ora to reach out to Pat Hayes
  6. pchampin to write a CG blog post about different kinds of occurrences
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 142 (Tue Jun 1 16:59:13 2021 UTC).