Publishing Business Group Telco — Minutes

Date: 2019-02-26

Attendees

Present: Luc Audrain, Ivan Herman, wendy, Liisa McCloy-Kelley, Wolfgang Schindler, Ric Wright, Wendy Reid, Rachel Comerford, Tzviya Siegman, Jeff Jaffe, Garth Conboy, julie blair, Mateus Teixeira, Avneesh Singh, Jonathan Greenberg, George Kerscher, Cristina Mussinelli, Jonathan Thurston

Regrets: Junko Kamata, Daihei Shiohama (塩濱大平), Murata Makoto, Jun-ichi Yoshii, Dave Cramer

Guests:

Chair: Luc Audrain

Scribe(s): Garth Conboy, Jeff Jaffe

Garth Conboy: scribenic: garth

Ivan Herman: screibenick: garth

1. meeting timings

Luc Audrain: Updates… meeting times.
… Alternating Europe and Asian friendly times (each every two weeks)
… See how it goes after two months
… decisions by email due to two calls (with overlapping agendas)
… Folks should be sure to “present+” on IRC when on the calls.

Ivan Herman: US will go to DST offset from the rest of the world. Perhaps ignore the three weeks where we’re offset (setting meetings in Boston time)?

Ric Wright: US & Canada: Mar 10, 2019 - Daylight Saving Time Starts

Ric Wright: Europe: Mar 31, 2019 - Daylight Saving Time Starts

Luc Audrain: Let’s just stay the course with invites as sent.

Garth Conboy: +1

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: +1

Tzviya Siegman: European is probably fine, perhaps we should adjust Asian ones?

Avneesh Singh: Most of Asia has no DST time. Stick with UTC?
… Trend is to use Boston/US time [which does match W3C trend].

Ivan Herman: any group can do what it wants.

Ivan Herman: +1 to Avneesh

Avneesh Singh: Asia friendly time is really for East Asia friendly — not good for India, e.g..

Luc Audrain: Be better for all of Asia if an hour earlier.

Various: time zone chitchat.

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Discuss Asian time on next Asian time meeting.

Jeff Jaffe: Timezone misalignment is only for a couple of calls; but for non-changing folks, it’s off for the whole summer.

2. Event Calendar

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: shared event calendar: https://calendar.google.com/calendar?cid=NWhvMW05aTdsNHVzOXEzbWEyMGVlMmh2a2NAZ3JvdXAuY2FsZW5kYXIuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbQ

Ivan Herman: shared event calendar iCal: https://calendar.google.com/calendar/ical/5ho1m9i7l4us9q3ma20ee2hvkc%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics

Luc Audrain: Calendar ^^
… we’ve put some events
… we can add
… we’ll open to Steering Committee

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: So you can send to any chair

Luc Audrain: Calendar to be maintained by chairs.

3. EPUB 3.2

Luc Audrain: EPUB 3.2
… Testimonials.
… Will hunt for them in the next few weeks… synchronized with epubcheck, et al.

Avneesh Singh: Do we have a PR plan?

Rachel Comerford: +1 - thanks so much for suggesting these testimonials tzviya!

Luc Audrain: Blogging, tweeting, et al — that EPUB 3.2 is validated by EPUBCheck 4.2
… PR from W3C?

George Kerscher: Press Release would be good.

Cristina Mussinelli: Will have a training course for Italian publishers Assoc.

Luc Audrain: It should go on the calendar.

Jeff Jaffe: Press Release, coordinate with Coralie Mercier — though we are trying to do fewer of them
… PR has not be a major focus; Home Page news is effective.

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Should we just start a Google Doc to add testimonials too?

Luc Audrain: Folks in BG will push to their local press.

Avneesh Singh: Should identify folks who are responsible for promotion in the various locales.

George Kerscher: Having a Talking Points document would be good.
… so we’re all singing from the same page (or sheet music).

Luc Audrain: https://www.w3.org/blog/2019/02/epubcheck-4-2-beta-release-available/

Luc Audrain: I will take the task of writing a blog post for W3C blog. That could be the talking points document. EPUB Summit in June is appropriate for this timing.

4. Epubcheck 4.2 (beta version)

Luc Audrain: https://www.w3.org/blog/2019/02/epubcheck-4-2-beta-release-available/

Luc Audrain: Beta version of EPUBCheck supporting EPUB 3.2 is out now (not quite feature complete yet).
… Real release candidate scheduled for March.

Various: Bravo!

5. Pop-up content

Luc Audrain: Pop-up content discussion in previous calls.
… issue in EPUB CG

Luc Audrain: https://github.com/w3c/publ-cg/issues/80

Luc Audrain: last call East-Asian call minutes : https://w3c.github.io/publ-bg/Meetings/Minutes/2019/2019-02-19-pbg

: Really is a technical discussion.

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Need to know what the problem we’re trying to solve really is.
… Some RS’s might pop-up, but others won’t — need to expect fall-back.
… Similar to use case of children’s picture books.
… Liisa is drafting use-case document.

Luc Audrain: BG should gather use-cases and expectations.

Wolfgang Schindler: it makes a lot of sense to me to gather use cases to understand the function of pop-ups for publishers and users

Luc Audrain: best practices, perhaps, such that there could be some cross-RS expectations.

Tzviya Siegman: BG and CG need to work together. Pop-ups are not part of the spec, but are built on something in the spec.

Garth Conboy: not sure it’s really that broken; some pop-up, some don’t (which is fine fallback) — no harm no foul.

Jeff Jaffe: Good to try to organize thinking with use-case document,.
… Opportunity for incubation, perhaps?

Dave Cramer: https://twitter.com/JiminyPan/status/1098989566818701312

Luc Audrain: We have a standard way to express markup. Good for BG to work with CG. Good to see more RS’s implement the affordance.
… Need to decide if it’s an interesting user experience (from CG thread).

Rachel Comerford: Will raise incubation topic in next CG call.

Luc Audrain: First need to know how it is expressed for RS’s that pop-up’s work.

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: RS’s could chime in with that data.

Mateus Teixeira: +1 to liisa — reading system docs are ‘not ideal’, to put it nicely

Wendy Reid: Some sample content would be good.

Various: what kind of pop-ups — footnotes, endnotes — are we really talking?

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Maybe just a list of ISBN’s would be good?

Ivan Herman: Good to have examples (and such) in the github.

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: BG will start with sheet to be more business-friendly.

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Will eventually need non-commercial content demos.

Avneesh Singh: The old epubtest.org had a huge test suite, can it be reused for this kind of testing?

Wendy Reid: ISBN’s are okay — but, be better to have pared down examples.

Ric Wright: +1 to Wendy

Ivan Herman: Should get “interesting” samples too… RTL and vertical, et al.

Tzviya Siegman: We should prioritize the types of pop-ups (e.g., footnotes could be way easier ).

Luc Audrain: Need to note whether JS is required for various types of pop-ups.

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Maybe hold off on prioritization until we get further in… to make sure needs are gathered.

Luc Audrain: Work to do!

6. collect ideas for future discussions

Luc Audrain: What are good topics for future discussions?

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: gathering ideas at: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kq5zOMzOxvHkM8yAgoqao0M0-z5FBzqtWWoO9qLS8PM/edit?usp=sharing

Jeff Jaffe: Still looking for a Publishing Champion in W3C.

Luc Audrain: See above link for document to accumulate topics for future discussion.
… Lots of EPUBs created from InDesign — A11Y could be improved.
… How are epub:type’s used today in the market?
… Please edit the document with other ideas.

Ivan Herman: Authoring should go way beyond InDesign.

Luc Audrain: Though InDesign pretty ubiquitous.

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: adding discussion of authoring tools to the list!

Ivan Herman: InDesign may not play same dominate role in non-Book authoring.

Rachel Comerford: +1 to everything ivan said

Wolfgang Schindler: +1 to Ivan’s proposal of authoring tools

Avneesh Singh: Outside US, INDESIGN is very widely used. People are using it for years and find it very difficult to change.

Luc Audrain: More about work flows rather than authoring tools.

Mateus Teixeira: +1 ivan / I added another line to discussion topics spreadsheet

Ivan Herman: Thanks mateus

Luc Audrain: Thank you!

Rachel Comerford: Focusing solely on an Adobe product feels like an endorsement of that product and workflow - I’m not comfortable with that. I hope this discussion continues.

Jeff Jaffe: Thanks Luc for chairing

Luc Audrain: We’re done.