Publishing Business Group Telco — Minutes

Date: 2020-01-07

Attendees

Present: Karen Myers, Luc Audrain, Wolfgang Schindler, Dave Cramer, Ralph Swick, Liisa McCloy-Kelley, Ivan Herman, Tzviya Siegman, Jeff Jaffe, Bill Kasdorf, Wendy Reid, George Kerscher, Avneesh Singh, Ric Wright, Julie Blair, Garth Conboy, David Stroup, Cristina Mussinelli, Jonathan Greenberg

Regrets:

Guests:

Chair: Liisa McCloy-Kelley, Luc Audrain

Scribe(s): Dave Cramer, Luc Audrain

Bill Kasdorf: -> https:

Bill Kasdorf: FYI I will have to leave at 12:30 and may be interrupted in the meantime.

1. status of epubcheck fundraising

Luc Audrain: at the end of the year there was good news
… $15k from various companies, including APL and Firebrand
… we are not yet to the figures we will have to pay at the end of February
… we still need $4k to pay the developers
… I have not yet received contributions from some European companies I have contacted
… for all the work we want to do this year, we are still $35k short

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: I started to write an introduction letter to go with the survey
… and was going to include a plea for paying for epubcheck
… I want it to be easy for people to take action

Jeff Jaffe: that’s an interesting idea
… and I’m trying to process it. The motivation is good. We’re reaching out to lots of people.
… but all of us get asked by hundreds of organizations to give money every year
… if I get a funding I’m less likely to pay attention to anything else that’s in the request
… I worry if we do this we might discourage people from filling out the survey

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Jeff, I think we can call out the fact that we’ve done this work, getting it off the ground
… the way I’m writing this, I’m heading into a new decade, here’s what we’ve done including epubcheck
… and at the end I mention this
… I think Luc’s idea of reaching out individually to people we know, like vendors, is better
… but this is another reminder

Tzviya Siegman: here’s a suggestion: instead of an introduction letter, put it at the end of the survey after they’ve filled it out

Jeff Jaffe: +1 to Tzviya’s idea

Wendy Reid: +1

Wolfgang Schindler: +1

Luc Audrain: tzviya, on your side I think you reached a bunch of companies. do you have news?

Tzviya Siegman: no. I’ll send reminders.

Luc Audrain: so will I.
… we’ve done a lot. We will continue.

2. Survey

Luc Audrain: Liisa and Dave, could you let you know?

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: I will be working on the introduction letter and to putting more into the survey questions
… we have another week or more of review before we send it out
… my proposal is that we start with a small group in the BG, make sure it works and makes sense,
… then roll out to CG/WG/BG
… I’ve started collecting names of people outside of this
… who are active online or in publishing
… I’ll send a link
… and as tzviya brought up, we should all be socialize this
… and get it out before the end of the month
… and get initial feedback in February
… for the SC F2F

Dave Cramer: George contributed to some questions
… that have been merged

Luc Audrain: any more comments on the survey?
… Dave told us we should have a look at the documents

Dave Cramer: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZLAIgAH7hoWo56uov3QN2-jaMY6MaWQKJrAys1GwDdY/edit#

3. Calls

Luc Audrain: we have seen the schedule for calls
… there is the question of daylight savings time
… Daihei will write about the proper time schedule for Asia/US call

Garth Conboy: there is the daylight savings time issue, and there was a shift between tues/wed
… I’ll wait for Daihei

Luc Audrain: thanks Garth

4. Audiobook standard

Luc Audrain: could we have a small status?

Wendy Reid: the tests are now live, they are hosted at (link TK)

Wendy Reid: https://github.com/w3c/publ-tests

Wendy Reid: we have a test repo in github, which will host all publishing tests
… I’ll be adding some sample content
… there are some sample implementations from Matt and Ivan
… we’re hoping to see things from Lars or other implementors soon
… we’re working on some formatting stuff to make reporting easier

Luc Audrain: what are the next steps?
… is there a schedule?

Wendy Reid: the testing will run to March 31
… then we will review the test coverage
… and then we will go for PR, which is six weeks of review, when the AC reviews and votes
… and if they approve we get to REC

Ivan Herman: wendyreid knows the process better than I do :)

Luc Audrain: we are on schedule for 2020?

Wendy Reid: yes
… we’re hoping for REC before the end of our charter on July 1

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: wendyreid and leslie were talking about how to help publishers understand what’s coming
… best practices, the metadata that is needed to be part of the project is a new thing for the producers of this content

Karen Myers: +1 Webinar with BISG

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: we talked to Brian at BISG, so we’re going to do a BISG webinar on Feb 18
… to introduce the concept
… brian is getting us an audience
… and the material we develop for this will be broadly useful

Wendy Reid: I’m going to be speaking next week at Project Voice about the audiobook spec
… which I hope will increase the audience for this

Luc Audrain: could you put a link to the conference in IRC?

Wendy Reid: https://www.projectvoice.ai/

Wendy Reid: it’s in the US, in Chattanooga, TN

Luc Audrain: this will be an item for the Digital Publishing Summit in June
… 4th and 5th of June
… in Madrid
… will it be a topic at Techforum in Toronto in March?

Wendy Reid: yes

Ralph Swick: See Digital PUblishing SUmmit 2020: Call for proposals

5. SC meeting

Luc Audrain: there will be an SC meeting in NY on February 24

Jeff Jaffe: a SC F2F is an extremely valuable opportunity for us, even if some folks are remote
… we have six or seven weeks to plan
… I hope whoever is planning the agenda will use the meeting as a way to relaunch ourselves
… and get some next steps
… who is chairing the meeting? The BG chairs?
… I’d like to see a first draft agenda soon.

Luc Audrain: the SC does not have chairs
… we discussed some time ago
… the different group co-chairs running
… we should probably prepare in the agenda the co-chairs of different groups

Tzviya Siegman: we’ve had rotating chairs
… I’ve been working on an agenda
… I can share with the SC

Bill Kasdorf: I need to jump to another meeting. Will catch up on the minutes. Thanks for great scribing, Dave!

Tzviya Siegman: we can discuss on Friday

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: that’s good, Tzviya
… we can discuss on Friday
… the reason to put it on the agenda today is to be transparent about having this meeting
… and get a relaunch and roadmap
… and we want all group people to give us ideas on where we should be headed
… reach out to any of our chairs
… where should publishing at w3c be headed?

6. a11y

Luc Audrain: we have heard a11y concerns around the world
… we feel some parts of the world is already involved
… and some are far behind
… they would like to discover more
… as PBG, we could discuss how this knowledge flows from us, could be shared with others
… we would like to share this discussion with you

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: we were hearing from daihei yesterday
… that many publishers are interested in a11y but unsure what is required of them
… they are uncertain what the changes in euro law mean for their publications
… how can we get euro publishers, or get legal help
… some amount of work is being done on website a11y
… as that is seen as a bigger legal risk in the US
… but the work is similar
… are any of us looking, as my org is, to collaborate on web/app/publications simultaneously?
… and get everyone trained

Wendy Reid: a few weeks from now, Canada is having an annual a11y in publishing summit
… I’m hoping for guidance on what publishers are looking for
… Canadian publishers are asking the same questions
… it’s not a local problem, it’s an international problem

Karen Myers: +1 International challenge

Wendy Reid: lots of questions
… so I’m hoping the summit will give us some feedback on what publishers need
… there’s drive to do it; they just need guidance

Karen Myers: https://www.accessiblepublishing.ca/about-the-2020-summit/

Tzviya Siegman: liisamk was asking in a11y in books vs web
… at wiley we’re looking at a11y across the board
… there’s little that’s unique about ebook a11y
… so the ebook a11y folks are also working on other things
… and all of the training affects websites, learning management systems, etc

George Kerscher: wendy mentioned that the guidelines in different countries
… i think it’s critical that we work from a single set of guidelines
… diverging guidelines would create chaos
… we’ve seen that with 508 vs wcag
… FYI in the US universities and schools are required to make their coursework accessible
… but more and more of the orgs are pointing to born accessible publications
… and the school put themselves at risk if they select an inaccessible publication over an accessible one
… but the requirement isn’t on the publisher. it’s a level of indirection.
… and it may be different after the euro stuff

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: george, you’re right that things not being direct is confusing
… isn’t that bookshare’s job? we know that’s not the right answer
… but we need to get people to understand why that’s not the right answer
… the training… we’re looking at the variety of training that’s available
… how to you train lots of people
… so you know if PRH is AA compliant across the org

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: https://www.w3.org/2019/12/pressrelease-intro-web-accessibility-course.html.en

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: one of my people is going to take the w3c training

Karen Myers: +1

Luc Audrain: you are right tzviya that it’s a11y across the board
… with the euro act there’s a focus on each part of supply chain
… for the publishers it’s on the content
… unless they are selling direct
… and metadata
… we should find ways to share solutions and awareness
… there is a lot of stuff out there

Jeff Jaffe: thanks liisa for the plug
… we’re using MIT’s infrastructure
… we have an a11y course
… which should appeal to everyone, not just developers
… spread the word

Karen Myers: thanks for having this topic
… during the last several months I’ve had lots of conversations, and this is a recurring theme
… the need for education and information materials
… Luc, you may recall that Sean Henry from WAI education outreach would be willing to work with PBG even for a simple landing page
… just pointing to WAI, euro laws, etc.
… that could be an interesting project

Luc Audrain: WIPO/ABC documents : https://www.accessiblebooksconsortium.org/publishing/en/accessible_best_practice_guidelines_for_publishers.html

George Kerscher: two items
… DAISY created inclusivepublishing.org website
… if that doesn’t need the needs for a central place
… we’ve tried not to make it a place where we author everything
… we’d be happy to work with w3c for a landing page with a similar purpose
… second point: we need to be introducing the whole concept of accessible authoring at a much earlier level
… like at university where students are learning to write, they need to be creating a11y publications from the beginning
… and there are new tools like word to EPUB
… we need to change society
… a11y is integrated into the fabric of society

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: we can start karen and george by putting something on pbg page
… and maybe point to inclusivepublishing.org
… and w3c training

Karen Myers: +1

Ivan Herman: there is a repo

Ivan Herman: BG repo

Jonathan Greenberg: at NYU we have what George said on our radar

Luc Audrain: Thnak you Ivan

Jonathan Greenberg: we have many doctoral students who produce dissertations
… and we have to hire outside firms to make the dissertations accessible
… so we want to help graduate students make their work accessible

George Kerscher: I have a solution for you. I’ll send an email.

Avneesh Singh: are we collecting this questions somewhere?

Luc Audrain: we are not collecting them
… it’s just a feeling
… not very specific questions

Liisa McCloy-Kelley: Avneesh, the biggest thing that’s not available anywhere is a pointer to the laws and their interpretation
… I don’t think the rest of what we hear isn’t that it’s available, having pointers would be good

Cristina Mussinelli: I was thinking about the information

George Kerscher: Jonathan, please send kerscher@montana.com an email.

Cristina Mussinelli: if we could look at the paper we’ve produced
… I can send you the link to the paper
… there is a lot of material
… tutorials and guidelines
… but it’s difficult for the supplier to the publisher to understand all that without practical training
… you need to work with InDesign to make things born accessible
… most of the production is done outside the publisher, by the suppliers
… and they will not understand the guidelines. They need practical training.
… just getting information together won’t completely solve the problem
… we need practical solutions

Wendy Reid: that’s the same feedback we got from the summit
… we hope to get more details on what materials the publishers need, and then produce it

Luc Audrain: LIA paper: https://www.fondazionelia.org/en/e-books-all-towards-accessible-publishing-ecosystem

Avneesh Singh: the DAISY members are already having a project on making accessible docs in InDesign. This should be available in a year.

Luc Audrain: we are almost at the hour
… we have shared a lot of things about a11y. It’s an important topic.

George Kerscher: Robb who works under Andrew Kirkpatrick has been charged with guidance for InDesign. contact me

Luc Audrain: thanks all.